Investment and other financial matters

Spotting Frauds And Wacko Preachers

October 17, 2008

Mark Latham spots the frauds:

LAST month, Newspoll claimed that a clear majority of Australians not
only supported an emissions trading scheme (88 per cent) but were
prepared to pay higher energy bills to make the scheme work (58 per
cent). The statistics for green electricity accounts, home energy
conversions, green car purchases and food self-sufficiency show that no
more than 10 per cent of Australians have tried to reduce their carbon
footprint. So what happened to the other 48 per cent in the Newspoll
survey who said they were willing to put their money where their mouth
is?

And a nice ping of one of the climate preachers:

Hugh Mackay has argued that Australians are ready to embrace an
"imaginative, even drastic" approach to greenhouse abatement. This
involves halving daily car usage; banning people aged under 26 from
driving, limiting air travel to special cases, and walking to the shops.
Whoever Mackay includes in his polling, they cannot be residents of
Australia’s car-dependent suburbs. They would regard his agenda as some
kind of wacky eco-fascist prank. It’s a long walk from Struggle Street
to the shopping mall, an even longer walk home humping a flat-screen
television on your back.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/com…

Warmest Regards

Bonzo

"The difference between a welfare state and a totalitarian state is a
matter of time" Ayn Rand

.
posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (43)

43 Responses to “Spotting Frauds And Wacko Preachers”

  1. admin says:

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:02:37 GMT, somebody claiming to be dolf
    (dolfb…@hotmail.com) sprouted forth in
    hKPJk.6018$sc2…@news-server.bigpond.net.au:-

    >That charities such as the Uniting Church’s Hughes Street Wayside is
    >simply a drop in centre–Which supports street and destitute people in a
    >lifestyle of dishonesty and crime.

    Maybe you can pick up your precious "Sydney Star" (Motto – Paper of choice
    for Poofters) there, Dork?

  2. admin says:

    No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to
    human rights in this country.

    -  dolf
    http://www.grapple.id.au/Chronicles/missionAccomplished.html

    Krudd the Dudd <let’s.have.a.gabf…@nodecisions.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:02:37 GMT, somebody claiming to be dolf
    > (dolfb…@hotmail.com) sprouted forth in
    > hKPJk.6018$sc2…@news-server.bigpond.net.au:-

    >> That charities such as the Uniting Church’s Hughes Street Wayside is
    >> simply a drop in centre–Which supports street and destitute people in a
    >> lifestyle of dishonesty and crime.

    > Maybe you can pick up your precious "Sydney Star" (Motto – Paper of choice
    > for Poofters) there, Dork?

  3. admin says:

    "dolf" <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

    news:z4pKk.6482$sc2.6422@news-server.bigpond.net.au…

    > No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    > many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to

    Insanity is so tragic.

  4. admin says:

    Especially from a fictional character in Green leotards.

    - dolf

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Green Lantern wrote:
    > "dolf" <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:z4pKk.6482$sc2.6422@news-server.bigpond.net.au…
    >> No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    >> many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to

    > Insanity is so tragic.

  5. admin says:

    Especially from a fictional character in Green leotards.

    - dolf

    Green Lantern wrote:
    > "dolf" <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:z4pKk.6482$sc2.6422@news-server.bigpond.net.au…
    >> No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    >> many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to

    > Insanity is so tragic.

    This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

    Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
    The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
    each recipient was rejected.

    Recipient: <gr…@peril.com>
    Reason: Unrouteable address

    Please reply to <Postmas…@mx.bigpond.com>
    if you feel this message to be in error.

  6. admin says:

    My view is that Australia is at war and that the anonymous user ‘Green
    Lantern’ is utilizing the Internet as a weapon.

    That such treason — will receive at some point in the future bullet in
    head (I use to be forgiving as a pacifist, but not any more)!

    Especially from a fictional character in Green leotards.

    - dolf

    Green Lantern wrote:
    > "dolf" <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:z4pKk.6482$sc2.6422@news-server.bigpond.net.au…
    >> No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    >> many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to

    > Insanity is so tragic.

    This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

    Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
    The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
    each recipient was rejected.

    Recipient: <gr…@peril.com>
    Reason: Unrouteable address

    Please reply to <Postmas…@mx.bigpond.com>
    if you feel this message to be in error.

  7. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:04:28 +0000, dolf wrote:
    > Especially from a fictional character in Green leotards.

    > – dolf

    > Green Lantern wrote:
    >> "dolf" <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:z4pKk.6482$sc2.6422@news-server.bigpond.net.au…
    >>> No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by
    >>> too many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect
    >>> to

    >> Insanity is so tragic.

    Top posting fool Dork.

    Wasn’t that you in the green tights at the last Mardi Gras?

    Sounds like you are in the advanced stages of syphilis, Dork.  That’s
    what you get for bum fucking too many unknown men, without using a condom.

  8. admin says:

    My view is that Australia is at war and that the anonymous user ‘Green
    Lantern’ is utilizing the Internet as a weapon.

    That such treason — will receive at some point in the future a bullet
    in head (I use to be forgiving as a pacifist, but not any more)!

    Especially when those comments are made anonymously on the Internet.

    - dolf

    PS. a copy of this message has been sent privately to test the veracity
    of the former poster’s claims.

    This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

    Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
    The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
    each recipient was rejected.

    Recipient: <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au>
    Reason: sorry, that domain isn’t in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)

    Please reply to <Postmas…@mx.bigpond.com>
    if you feel this message to be in error.

    Krudd the Dud <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Top posting fool Dork.

    > Wasn’t that you in the green tights at the last Mardi Gras?

    > Sounds like you are in the advanced stages of syphilis, Dork.  That’s
    > what you get for bum fucking too many unknown men, without using a condom.

  9. admin says:

    My view is that Australia is at war and that the anonymous user Krudd
    the Dud <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au> is utilizing the
    Internet as a weapon.

    That such treason — will receive at some point in the future a bullet
    in head (I use to be forgiving as a pacifist, but not any more)!

    Especially when those comments are made anonymously on the Internet.

    - dolf

    PS. a copy of this message has been sent privately to test the veracity
    of the former poster’s claims.

    This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

    Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
    The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
    each recipient was rejected.

    Recipient: <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au>
    Reason: sorry, that domain isn’t in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)

    Please reply to <Postmas…@mx.bigpond.com>
    if you feel this message to be in error.

    Krudd the Dud <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Top posting fool Dork.

    > Wasn’t that you in the green tights at the last Mardi Gras?

    > Sounds like you are in the advanced stages of syphilis, Dork.  That’s
    > what you get for bum fucking too many unknown men, without using a condom.

  10. admin says:

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:10:11 +0000, dolf wrote:
    > My view is that Australia is at war and that the anonymous user Krudd
    > the Dud <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au> is utilizing the
    > Internet as a weapon.

    > That such treason — will receive at some point in the future a bullet
    > in head (I use to be forgiving as a pacifist, but not any more)!

    That is a serious crime Dolt – threatening to murder somebody.  Should I
    report you to Kings Cross Police?

    Top posting is almost as serious – stop top posting, you mental defective!

  11. admin says:

    My view is that Australia is at war and that the anonymous user Krudd
    the Dud <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au> is utilizing the
    Internet as a weapon.

    That such treason — will receive at some point in the future a bullet
    in head (I use to be forgiving as a pacifist, but not any more)!

    Especially when those comments are made anonymously on the Internet.

    - dolf

    PS. a copy of this message has been sent privately to test the veracity
    of the former poster’s claims.

    This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

    Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
    The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
    each recipient was rejected.

    Recipient: <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au>
    Reason: sorry, that domain isn’t in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)

    Please reply to <Postmas…@mx.bigpond.com>
    if you feel this message to be in error.

    Krudd the Dud <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > That is a serious crime Dolt – threatening to murder somebody.  Should I
    > report you to Kings Cross Police?

    > Top posting is almost as serious – stop top posting, you mental defective!

  12. admin says:

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:02:37 GMT, dolf <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >That charities such as the Uniting Church’s Hughes Street Wayside is
    >simply a drop in centre–Which supports street and destitute people in a
    >lifestyle of dishonesty and crime.

    That you fit in well there.

    >That I’m getting tired of being culturally, religious and sexually
    >vilified in having navigate through drug crazed ICE addicts who are
    >threatening and incoherent.

    That you need to stop treating people that way.

    >That this abuse has continued as the course of life by others over a
    >protracted period that I will no longer be financially or food generous
    >to these people.

    That you bring it upon yourself.

    You promised to top yourself. Its time to keep that promise.

    >- dolf

    Barry
    =====
    Home page
    http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og

  13. admin says:

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:21:56 GMT, "Green Lantern" <gr…@peril.com> wrote:

    >"dolf" <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:z4pKk.6482$sc2.6422@news-server.bigpond.net.au…
    >> No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    >> many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to

    >Insanity is so tragic.

    The Dolt is beyond insane.

    Barry
    =====
    Home page
    http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og

  14. admin says:

    Krudd the Dud wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:10:11 +0000, dolf wrote:

    >> My view is that Australia is at war and that the anonymous user Krudd
    >> the Dud <another.gabf…@decision.not.possible.com.au> is utilizing the
    >> Internet as a weapon.

    >> That such treason — will receive at some point in the future a bullet
    >> in head (I use to be forgiving as a pacifist, but not any more)!

    > That is a serious crime Dolt – threatening to murder somebody.  Should I
    > report you to Kings Cross Police?

    Hahaha do it, it’d be poetic justice considering he has taken legal
    action against a number of internet denizens merely for advertising him
    as a lunatic (which he clearly is).

  15. admin says:

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:42:34 +0800, somebody claiming to be Hunter01
    (hunte…@iinet.net.au) sprouted forth in
    48ffe4a5$0$10605$5a62a…@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:-

    >> That is a serious crime Dolt – threatening to murder somebody.  Should I
    >> report you to Kings Cross Police?  

    >Hahaha do it, it’d be poetic justice considering he has taken legal
    >action against a number of internet denizens merely for advertising him
    >as a lunatic (which he clearly is).

    He would probably be a well know fruit cake in the Kings Cross area – no
    doubt the overworked police would groan at the mere mention of the idiot’s
    name.

  16. admin says:

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:17:43 GMT, somebody claiming to be dolf
    (dolfb…@hotmail.com) sprouted forth in
    rrMJk.5964$sc2.5…@news-server.bigpond.net.au:-

    >Dolf Boek
    >Winner: 1997 Rainbow Award for Leadership by Gay Male

    So that’s your problem Dork.

    Shit chute overstretched?

  17. admin says:

    No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to
    human rights in this country.

    -  dolf
    http://www.grapple.id.au/Chronicles/missionAccomplished.html

    Krudd the Dudd <let’s.have.a.gabf…@nodecisions.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:17:43 GMT, somebody claiming to be dolf
    > (dolfb…@hotmail.com) sprouted forth in
    > rrMJk.5964$sc2.5…@news-server.bigpond.net.au:-

    >> Dolf Boek
    >> Winner: 1997 Rainbow Award for Leadership by Gay Male

    > So that’s your problem Dork.

    > Shit chute overstretched?

  18. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    ———- Forwarded message ———-
    From: dolf <dolfb…@hotmail.com>
    Date: Oct 19, 4:26 am
    Subject: Arselifter cuts out daughter’s tongue and burns her alive for
    converting
    To: aus.politics, alt.religion.islam, uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.israel

    Why aren’t we surprised that your dishonesty as a fascist dog ought to
    have such ready access to the law–above the rest of us.

    - dolf
    -http://www.grapple.id.au/Chronicles/missionAccomplished.html

    On Sep 22, 2:18 am, Mark Latham

    <ex_labor_vo…@only.idiots.vote.labor.com> wrote:
    >> Have given the unequivocal labeling as ‘kook’ in which you are in
    >> agreement, have I depicted you correctly in this www-page document
    >> which may or may not be presented in a court of law.

    > Dolt, I have just shown your trashy web site to an eminent barrister
    > – he couldn’t stop pissing himself with laughter!

    Hughes Street Grocery
    Potts Point NSW 2011

    17 October 2008 [SUPER: #253 / #31 – Military Strategies as Guides/
    Quelling War; I-Ching: H32 – Endurance; Tetra: #51 – Constancy / EGO:
    #357 / #29 – Deeming/ Non-Assertion; I-Ching: H36 – Sinking Light;
    Tetra: #67 – Darkening]

    I’ve noticed within recent weeks, apart from the usual disregard by
    your business to Community based newspapers such as the ‘Wentworth
    Courier’ that the cultural and artistic newspaper known as the ‘Sydney
    Star Observer’ has recently ceased to be provided by your business.

    Quite apart from my referencing your business in this my present
    chapter of my Internet based book, is the logistical requirement that
    if you are making a values statement on homosexuality by the removal
    of such a publication, that your values are properly stated and
    differentiated from German religious, political socialism and
    nationalism of 1933 to 1945 which is known as fascism.

    That as an immigrant to Australia, which by nature of its
    Commonwealth, makes it appropriate for you to recognise your status as
    a refugee and citizen can only be subject to the abandonment of your
    religious belief by which you were married by oath before GOD—is
    deficient and worthless and that your previous national identity can
    make no sovereign autonomic claim of democracy’s regulative free-will.

    I look forward to you either seeing the sense of resuming your
    goodwill in providing the publication or perhaps recognising your
    responsibility to this country begins with recognition of the
    deficiency of your own.

    Should the matter not be adequately rectified or there is any
    perceived change to the negative, in your usual cordial manner then
    the matter, as complaint will be directed to the anti-discrimination
    Board of New South Wales.

    Yours truly,

    Dolf Boek
    Winner: 1997 Rainbow Award for Leadership by Gay Male

    Document delivered in person whilst store owner using coffee machine @
    0536 hours [SUPER: #315 / #24 – Important Distinctions/ Trouble from
    Indulgence; I-Ching: H5 – Delay; Tetra: #18 – Waiting / EGO: #311 / #8
    – Worth of Water/ Easy By Nature; I-Ching: H48 – Well; Tetra: #40 –
    Law/Model]

    dolf wrote:
    > No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by
    > too many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show
    > disrespect to human rights in this country.

    > –  dolf –
    > http://www.grapple.id.au/Chronicles/missionAccomplished.html

    > Krudd the Dudd <let’s.have.a.gabf…@nodecisions.com> wrote:
    >> On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:17:43 GMT, somebody claiming to be dolf
    >> (dolfb…@hotmail.com) sprouted forth in
    >> rrMJk.5964$sc2.5…@news-server.bigpond.net.au:-

    >>> Dolf Boek Winner: 1997 Rainbow Award for Leadership by Gay Male

    >> So that’s your problem Dork.

    >> Shit chute overstretched?

  19. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:32:18 GMT, dolf <dolfb…@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >Krudd the Dudd <let’s.have.a.gabf…@nodecisions.com> wrote:
    >> On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:17:43 GMT, somebody claiming to be dolf
    >> (dolfb…@hotmail.com) sprouted forth in
    >> rrMJk.5964$sc2.5…@news-server.bigpond.net.au:-

    >>> Dolf Boek
    >>> Winner: 1997 Rainbow Award for Leadership by Gay Male

    >> So that’s your problem Dork.

    >> Shit chute overstretched?

    >No the problem appears to be that Australia is already populated by too
    >many fascist brittish, Irish and scottish dogs who show disrespect to
    >human rights in this country.

    >-  dolf
    >- http://www.grapple.id.au/Chronicles/missionAccomplished.html

    You are the worst offender, Dolt.

    Barry
    =====
    Home page
    http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og

  20. admin says:

    Krudd the Dudd wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:17:43 GMT, somebody claiming to be dolf
    > (dolfb…@hotmail.com) sprouted forth in
    > rrMJk.5964$sc2.5…@news-server.bigpond.net.au:-

    >> Dolf Boek
    >> Winner: 1997 Rainbow Award for Leadership by Gay Male

    > So that’s your problem Dork.

    > Shit chute overstretched?

    I think it’s more a case of him being a disease-ridden twisted vile
    subhuman. Aren’t you dead yet dolt??? You promised us you’d be going and
    taking a long nap a very long time ago. You also promised on numerous
    occasions to never post to usenet again. Oh did I mention he’s also a
    lying sack of shit?

    For a laugh check out http://www.ratbags.com/loon/mailbox/dolf.htm

  21. admin says:

    "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

    news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    > "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    > "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    > WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    > there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    > financial markets have got the world into this mess

    No, your premise is wrong.

    Commentary varies. It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to
    prevent just this sort of mess, but obviously failed.

    Financial markets are highly regulated. The question may be one of bad
    regulation versus good regulation.

    Equally the question may be one of transparency. The ratings agencies have
    been doing a poor job as outsourced risk assessors for the banks.

    > and only governments, acting co-operatively to
    > "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
    > — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
    > of the mess.

    The writer’s a blithering idiot. We’ve had less than a week when the
    conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    Why does he assume this is working? It may be, and it may not be. Stock
    exchanges fell again yesterday; medium-term interbank credit has not
    returned to normal. What is his test for deciding whether that solution
    works?

    > Already there is progress, of sorts. Last week we
    > were talking about a slump on the scale of the Great
    > Depression of the 1930s,

    No, *we* weren’t. Only some excitable people were.

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >  when unemployment leapt to
    > 20 to 30% of the workforce in industrialised countries.

    > This week we are talking about a recession involving
    > the prospect of negative growth in most industrialised
    > countries for one or two quarters early next year and
    > weak growth, insufficient to maintain full employment,
    > for a couple of years.

    > What has caused this transformation? Policymakers
    > around the world and the overwhelming majority of
    > economic pundits have accepted the practical message
    > of Keynesian economics.

    > They have abandoned what is known as economic rationalism
    > in Australia and as neo-liberalism in the rest of the
    > world and accepted the need for hitherto unprecedented
    > monetary injections into nations’ income-expenditure
    > streams to offset the slump in private spending.

    > It took 50 years for the lessons of the Great Depression,
    > and the consequent rise of fascism and World War II,
    > to be forgotten. It is not surprising that the generation
    > who survived that experience were committed to a "belts
    > and braces" system of economic management to ensure that
    > that global trauma would never happen again — or that
    > the generation who replaced them in the 1980s could not
    > understand that commitment.

    > Ironically, the high prestige of the current generation
    > of economic managers was inherited from the success of
    > the Keynesians. Yet they are, in the main, arrogant
    > (at least until recently). They are highly trained technicians,
    > dismissive of economic history and would probably be
    > puzzled by the notion that economics is moral science
    > rather than a "hard" science.

    OK. This is a point.

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Their "science" does not allow for the possibility that
    > mankind is a mixture of selfishness and altruism and can
    > shape as well as be shaped by the environment through time.

    > Both schools of economics have an underlying social philosophy.
    > It is not surprising that those who are rich (or want to
    > serve the rich) and those with a libertarian bent tend to
    > favour neo-liberal economics and those who value security
    > and equality are biased in favour of Keynesian economics.

    > It is not immediately apparent that the Rudd Government
    > will be comfortable with the philosophical and political
    > underpinnings of Keynesian economics, even though John
    > Maynard Keynes supported Britain’s Liberal Party and
    > could credibly claim to be an Edmund Burke conservative
    > in terms of political philosophy.

    > Nevertheless, writing in 1936 in The General Theory
    > of Employment, Interest and Money, his answer to the
    > Depression, Keynes saw a long-term decline in the
    > return on investment which meant the long-term
    > "euthanasia of the rentier" (defined as the
    > "functionless investor").

    > Elsewhere he made it clear that he saw financial
    > investment in the sharemarket (which he was good at)
    > as a "low-grade" activity that made liquid investment
    > in otherwise illiquid assets such as a mine (through
    > buying and selling bits of paper called shares).

    > He met head-on the charge that his theory unduly
    > limited individual freedom: "Whilst, therefore,
    > the enlargement of the functions of government,
    > involved in the task of adjusting to one another
    > the propensity to consume and the inducement to
    > invest, would seem to the 19th century publicist
    > or to a contemporary American financier to be a
    > terrific encroachment on individualism, I defend it,
    > on the contrary, both as the only practicable means
    > of avoiding the destruction of existing economic
    > forms in their entirety and as the condition of
    > the successful functioning of individual initiative."

    > Keynes asked: "Is the fulfilment of these ideas a
    > visionary hope? Are the interests they will thwart
    > stronger and more obvious than those which they will
    > serve?"

    > He also likened financial speculation to the card
    > game where the loser ends up holding "the old maid".

    > Forget the subprime loans. They amount to gambling
    > with matchsticks compared to the "old maids" lurking
    > somewhere in the $90 trillion (about 80 times
    > Australian GDP) global credit default swaps market.

    > The Reserve Bank "knows of" about $400 billion of these
    > instruments in Australia. By comparison, the assets of
    > the Australian banks amount to $142 billion. Nobody,
    > including the Australian banks, knows who is holding
    > the "old maids".

    > It is no wonder bank nationalisation is back on the
    > political agenda worldwide. In Australia, at the very
    > least, we will see the banks re-regulated to the degree
    > that applied when the Menzies government made the
    > commercial banks the agents of the Treasury and the
    > Reserve Bank as the alternative to the failed bank
    > nationalisation in 1949.

    >  ———

    >         "Ohhhhh Say can you see
    >               By the dawns early light
    >          The markets in panic
    >              and Republicans take flight! "

    >  ———

    >    "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
    >   Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
    >   Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

    >    http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

    >  ———

  22. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    DVH wrote:
    > "peewee" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> piddled
    > news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    >> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    >> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    >> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >> financial markets have got the world into this mess

    > No, your premise is wrong.

    As always.  He has an unerring talent for that.

    > Commentary varies. It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was
    > designed to prevent just this sort of mess, but obviously failed.

    > Financial markets are highly regulated. The question may be one of bad
    > regulation versus good regulation.

    > Equally the question may be one of transparency. The ratings agencies
    > have been doing a poor job as outsourced risk assessors for the banks.

    >> and only governments, acting co-operatively to
    >> "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
    >> — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
    >> of the mess.

    > The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    Yes.  You have detected his basic problem.

    >  We’ve had less than a week when the
    > conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments
    > have coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    > Why does he assume this is working? It may be, and it may not be.
    > Stock exchanges fell again yesterday; medium-term interbank credit
    > has not returned to normal. What is his test for deciding whether
    > that solution works?

    It’s his usual test – called wishful thinking.

    >> Already there is progress, of sorts. Last week we
    >> were talking about a slump on the scale of the Great
    >> Depression of the 1930s,

    > No, *we* weren’t. Only some excitable people were.

    Peewee is rather like that at the best of times.

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >>  when unemployment leapt to
    >> 20 to 30% of the workforce in industrialised countries.

    >> This week we are talking about a recession involving
    >> the prospect of negative growth in most industrialised
    >> countries for one or two quarters early next year and
    >> weak growth, insufficient to maintain full employment,
    >> for a couple of years.

    >> What has caused this transformation? Policymakers
    >> around the world and the overwhelming majority of
    >> economic pundits have accepted the practical message
    >> of Keynesian economics.

    >> They have abandoned what is known as economic rationalism
    >> in Australia and as neo-liberalism in the rest of the
    >> world and accepted the need for hitherto unprecedented
    >> monetary injections into nations’ income-expenditure
    >> streams to offset the slump in private spending.

    >> It took 50 years for the lessons of the Great Depression,
    >> and the consequent rise of fascism and World War II,
    >> to be forgotten. It is not surprising that the generation
    >> who survived that experience were committed to a "belts
    >> and braces" system of economic management to ensure that
    >> that global trauma would never happen again — or that
    >> the generation who replaced them in the 1980s could not
    >> understand that commitment.

    >> Ironically, the high prestige of the current generation
    >> of economic managers was inherited from the success of
    >> the Keynesians. Yet they are, in the main, arrogant
    >> (at least until recently). They are highly trained technicians,
    >> dismissive of economic history and would probably be
    >> puzzled by the notion that economics is moral science
    >> rather than a "hard" science.

    > OK. This is a point.

    Peewee won’t understand that.  He will see it as a threat!

  23. admin says:

    "TomTom" <t…@invalid.com> wrote in message

    news:gd6s6a$esj$1@news.albasani.net…

    >>> Ironically, the high prestige of the current generation
    >>> of economic managers was inherited from the success of
    >>> the Keynesians. Yet they are, in the main, arrogant
    >>> (at least until recently). They are highly trained technicians,
    >>> dismissive of economic history and would probably be
    >>> puzzled by the notion that economics is moral science
    >>> rather than a "hard" science.

    >> OK. This is a point.

    > Peewee won’t understand that.  He will see it as a threat!

    :-))

  24. admin says:

    fasgnadh wrote:

    > "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    Lots of "real McCoys" creeping out of their holes and offering
    ‘predictions’ and ‘advice’ all of a sudden – not least yourself.

    > "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    (yawn)

  25. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    DVH wrote:
    > "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    >> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    >> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    >> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >> financial markets have got the world into this mess

    > No, your premise is wrong.

    No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    …to use the technical market term

     From political leaders to Market analysts, brokers to
    Nobel economists, the clear consensus is a crisis in Market
    Capitalism caused by exuberant lending leading to fear and panic,

    > Commentary varies.

    When doesn’t it? We have PomPom blaming the Borrowers,
    as if Prudential Lending didn’t go out the window with
    Investment banking, and then we have The clear any unequivocal
    voice of the market..  fear following greed;

    "Across the Hudson River in Manhattan, … veteran trader
    Ted Weisberg goes to work on the floor of the NYSE…

    Weisburg says “greed” and “fear” have brought the near
    collapse of the markets where he’s spent his working life."

    The Greed was ubiquitous in the whole Sub-Prime catastrophe,
    and nothing could have restrained it once all the Market
    pieces were in place:

    Greed from the Shiny suits who invented mortgage Derivatives
    that pretend to remove risk, but merely hid it (labeled as
    financial WMD’s by Warren Buffet) to an army of greedy
    mortgage retailers who lent to people they KNEW could
    not repay, on loans that ramp up interest rates after a
    couple of years..because they got bonuses for VOLUME, and they
    could, for the first time, because of WMD derivatives,
    play pass the Poison Parcel with the risk…

    Well that market bubble has burst..  like they all do,
    and now those responsible are trying to hide because
    the airborne excrement is burying hundreds of thousands of
    Americans

          but the Market has been unequivocal and the USSA economy,
          even before 900 Billion of sub prime poison explodes with the
          next automatic rate rise, is plunging into recession.

    " It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to

    > prevent just this sort of mess,

    WTF?  It has NOTHING to do with Mortgage debt derivatives!!  B^P

    It addresses     compliance audits, quality control, Auditor
    Independence, Corporate Responsibility, Enhanced Financial Disclosures
    Analyst Conflicts of Interest, Commission Resources and Authority,
    Studies and Reports, Corporate and Criminal Fraud Accountability,
    White Collar Crime Penalty Enhancement and Corporate Tax Returns.

    The crisis at core, exist because the market produced PERFECTLY
    LEGAL Financial WMD’s, new, but ultimately TOXIC, financial
    instruments, which APPEARED to remove risk from retail lenders,
    thus removing all constraint on their lending prudence..
      ..their greed was UNRESTRAINED!!!

     > but obviously failed.

    Regulation clearly aimed at tightening fraud or white collar
    crime, was not aimed at preventing the legal folly of the Market,
    nor at outlawing insane greed…

       we have yet to seriously address how to do that.   ;-)

    > Financial markets are highly regulated.

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA!

    Having a LOT of regulation, all run by the graduates of
    Goldman Sachs and proud Friedmanites, under a government
    that was profoundly de-regulatory means you got an economy
    that tore up the rule book as certainly as Bush tore up
    your constitutional rights and freedoms, while pretending
    to protect them!!!!   B^D

    You have Political frauds appointing Goldman Sachs Free-market
    neo-liberals to head the Fed!!!   B^D

    It’s like putting the Beagle Boys in charge of the safe!  B^D

    The goal of Big Capital is to make sure that after each crisis,
    the response is to put in just enough window dressing to prevent
    the LAST fuck-up from recurring, but not to curtail the next
    clever financial instrument that can enable shearing the sheep..

    Milkin and Junk bonds –>  some concessions to tighten THAT
    specific problem..

    toxic sub-prime mortgage derivatives—> you don’t need to
    hang the last Investment banker in the entrails of the last
    hedge fund..   they have already imploded.

    But, here’s the difference, this has been SO SEVERE across
    the globe that you are going to see more of what has already
    happened in response..  global co-operation, strengthening
    and reforming global financial institutions, creating new
    ones,  and because the USSA hasn’t even started to feel the
    pain, they, under new management, will be taking a renewed
    role in multilateral approaches and global solutions!   B^)

    Read Prof Fariborz Moshirian in the Fin Review 15/10/2008
    for an excellent article on why this crisis is an OPPORTUNITY!  B^D
    "Nothing Like a Crisis to Make it All Better."

    > The question may be one of bad
    > regulation versus good regulation.

    That is always the question.  Just as there are good market
    operations and bad market operations.

    It is a fallacy to blame Market failure on regulatory failure,
    that is like blaming the police for failing to prevent you
    shooting your wife, and excusing yourself.

    Robert Fuld and the AIG CEO’s did precisely that when before
    Congress.

    Since explaining that I agree with reality, = mixed economies,
    because all the worlds economies are mixed ..free market AND
    socialism, the only questions are what regulation you have,
    how much, how it operates, what it costs, where it functions..

    I’m not interested in creating large bureaucracies for
    centralized command and control..  [decades ago the
    Cybernetician Norbert Wiener’s experiment in Chile to
    integrate economic information systems, was cut off
    by the CIA coup against Allende, and clearly our global
    IT systems, while interdependent, are not sufficiently
    integrated to enable even a global overview]…  it may be
    more a matter of expanding warnings and, mandating
    greater disclosure, because the GREAT failure of the Market
    was that so few voices were raised to warn people, and none of them
    came from either government or Market institutions, because
    they are firmly in the hands of the economic elites.

    > Equally the question may be one of transparency.

    The   Hedge funds have achieved it, post-apocalypse!   B^D

    Every time I refer to transparency, accountability..
    even Prudence,  PomPom and BJ call me a Communist.

     > The ratings agencies have

    > been doing a poor job as outsourced risk assessors for the banks.

    It’s a systemic market failure.

    >> and only governments, acting co-operatively to
    >> "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
    >> — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
    >> of the mess.

    > The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    to the USSA are doing,  you seem to be the blithering idiot

    "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    reached a turning point.

    The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    as well as guarantees."

    ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
       financial markets is now needed."

     > We’ve had less than a week when the

    > conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    > coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

    Davidson is speaking of what CAN ‘get us out of this mess"
    and you are whining that it hasn’t happened already IN A WEEK!?

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAHAHAA

    That’s it.. you are in the Braindead Bit Bucket with PomPom And BlowJob!

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >> Already there is progress, of sorts. Last week we
    >> were talking about a slump on the scale of the Great
    >> Depression of the 1930s,

    >>  when unemployment leapt to
    >> 20 to 30% of the workforce in industrialised countries.

    >> This week we are talking about a recession involving
    >> the prospect of negative growth in most industrialised
    >> countries for one or two quarters early next year and
    >> weak growth, insufficient to maintain full employment,
    >> for a couple of years.

    >> What has caused this transformation? Policymakers
    >> around the world and the overwhelming majority of
    >> economic pundits have accepted the practical message
    >> of Keynesian economics.

    >> They have abandoned what is known as economic rationalism
    >> in Australia and as neo-liberalism in the rest of the
    >> world and accepted the need for hitherto unprecedented
    >> monetary injections into nations’ income-expenditure
    >> streams to offset the slump in private spending.

    >> It took 50 years for the lessons of the Great Depression,
    >> and the consequent rise of fascism and World War II,
    >> to be forgotten. It is not surprising that the generation
    >> who survived that experience were committed to a "belts
    >> and braces" system of economic management to ensure that
    >> that global trauma would never happen again — or that
    >> the generation who replaced them in the 1980s could not
    >> understand that commitment.

    >> Ironically, the high prestige of the current generation
    >> of economic managers was inherited from the success of
    >> the Keynesians. Yet they are, in the main, arrogant
    >> (at least until recently). They are highly trained technicians,
    >> dismissive of economic history and would probably be
    >> puzzled by the notion that economics is moral science
    >> rather than a "hard" science.

    > OK. This is a point.

    >> Their "science" does not allow for the possibility that
    >> mankind is a mixture of selfishness and altruism and can
    >> shape as well as be shaped by the environment through time.

    >> Both schools of economics

    read more »

  26. admin says:

    On 17 Okt, 12:47, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > DVH wrote:
    > > "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > >news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    > >> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    > >>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    > >>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    > >> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    > >> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    > >> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    > >> financial markets have got the world into this mess

    > > No, your premise is wrong.

    > No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    > …to use the technical market term

    >  From political leaders to Market analysts, brokers to
    > Nobel economists, the clear consensus is a crisis in Market
    > Capitalism caused by exuberant lending leading to fear and panic,

    > > Commentary varies.

    > When doesn’t it? We have PomPom blaming the Borrowers,
    > as if Prudential Lending didn’t go out the window with
    > Investment banking, and then we have The clear any unequivocal
    > voice of the market..  fear following greed;

    > "Across the Hudson River in Manhattan, … veteran trader
    > Ted Weisberg goes to work on the floor of the NYSE…

    > Weisburg says “greed” and “fear” have brought the near
    > collapse of the markets where he’s spent his working life."

    > The Greed was ubiquitous in the whole Sub-Prime catastrophe,
    > and nothing could have restrained it once all the Market
    > pieces were in place:

    > Greed from the Shiny suits who invented mortgage Derivatives
    > that pretend to remove risk, but merely hid it (labeled as
    > financial WMD’s by Warren Buffet) to an army of greedy
    > mortgage retailers who lent to people they KNEW could
    > not repay, on loans that ramp up interest rates after a
    > couple of years..because they got bonuses for VOLUME, and they
    > could, for the first time, because of WMD derivatives,
    > play pass the Poison Parcel with the risk…

    > Well that market bubble has burst..  like they all do,
    > and now those responsible are trying to hide because
    > the airborne excrement is burying hundreds of thousands of
    > Americans

    >       but the Market has been unequivocal and the USSA economy,
    >       even before 900 Billion of sub prime poison explodes with the
    >       next automatic rate rise, is plunging into recession.

    > " It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to

    > > prevent just this sort of mess,

    > WTF?  It has NOTHING to do with Mortgage debt derivatives!!  B^P

    > It addresses     compliance audits, quality control, Auditor
    > Independence, Corporate Responsibility, Enhanced Financial Disclosures
    > Analyst Conflicts of Interest, Commission Resources and Authority,
    > Studies and Reports, Corporate and Criminal Fraud Accountability,
    > White Collar Crime Penalty Enhancement and Corporate Tax Returns.

    > The crisis at core, exist because the market produced PERFECTLY
    > LEGAL Financial WMD’s, new, but ultimately TOXIC, financial
    > instruments, which APPEARED to remove risk from retail lenders,
    > thus removing all constraint on their lending prudence..
    >   ..their greed was UNRESTRAINED!!!

    >  > but obviously failed.

    > Regulation clearly aimed at tightening fraud or white collar
    > crime, was not aimed at preventing the legal folly of the Market,
    > nor at outlawing insane greed…

    >    we have yet to seriously address how to do that.   ;-)

    > > Financial markets are highly regulated.

    > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA!

    > Having a LOT of regulation, all run by the graduates of
    > Goldman Sachs and proud Friedmanites, under a government
    > that was profoundly de-regulatory means you got an economy
    > that tore up the rule book as certainly as Bush tore up
    > your constitutional rights and freedoms, while pretending
    > to protect them!!!!   B^D

    > You have Political frauds appointing Goldman Sachs Free-market
    > neo-liberals to head the Fed!!!   B^D

    > It’s like putting the Beagle Boys in charge of the safe!  B^D

    > The goal of Big Capital is to make sure that after each crisis,
    > the response is to put in just enough window dressing to prevent
    > the LAST fuck-up from recurring, but not to curtail the next
    > clever financial instrument that can enable shearing the sheep..

    > Milkin and Junk bonds –>  some concessions to tighten THAT
    > specific problem..

    > toxic sub-prime mortgage derivatives—> you don’t need to
    > hang the last Investment banker in the entrails of the last
    > hedge fund..   they have already imploded.

    > But, here’s the difference, this has been SO SEVERE across
    > the globe that you are going to see more of what has already
    > happened in response..  global co-operation, strengthening
    > and reforming global financial institutions, creating new
    > ones,  and because the USSA hasn’t even started to feel the
    > pain, they, under new management, will be taking a renewed
    > role in multilateral approaches and global solutions!   B^)

    > Read Prof Fariborz Moshirian in the Fin Review 15/10/2008
    > for an excellent article on why this crisis is an OPPORTUNITY!  B^D
    > "Nothing Like a Crisis to Make it All Better."

    > > The question may be one of bad
    > > regulation versus good regulation.

    > That is always the question.  Just as there are good market
    > operations and bad market operations.

    > It is a fallacy to blame Market failure on regulatory failure,
    > that is like blaming the police for failing to prevent you
    > shooting your wife, and excusing yourself.

    > Robert Fuld and the AIG CEO’s did precisely that when before
    > Congress.

    > Since explaining that I agree with reality, = mixed economies,
    > because all the worlds economies are mixed ..free market AND
    > socialism, the only questions are what regulation you have,
    > how much, how it operates, what it costs, where it functions..

    > I’m not interested in creating large bureaucracies for
    > centralized command and control..  [decades ago the
    > Cybernetician Norbert Wiener’s experiment in Chile to
    > integrate economic information systems, was cut off
    > by the CIA coup against Allende, and clearly our global
    > IT systems, while interdependent, are not sufficiently
    > integrated to enable even a global overview]…  it may be
    > more a matter of expanding warnings and, mandating
    > greater disclosure, because the GREAT failure of the Market
    > was that so few voices were raised to warn people, and none of them
    > came from either government or Market institutions, because
    > they are firmly in the hands of the economic elites.

    > > Equally the question may be one of transparency.

    > The   Hedge funds have achieved it, post-apocalypse!   B^D

    > Every time I refer to transparency, accountability..
    > even Prudence,  PomPom and BJ call me a Communist.

    >  > The ratings agencies have

    > > been doing a poor job as outsourced risk assessors for the banks.

    > It’s a systemic market failure.

    > >> and only governments, acting co-operatively to
    > >> "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
    > >> — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
    > >> of the mess.

    > > The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    > You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    > and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    > So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    > to the USSA are doing,  you seem to be the blithering idiot

    > "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    > Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    > reached a turning point.

    > The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    > to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    > as well as guarantees."

    > ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
    >    financial markets is now needed."

    >  > We’ve had less than a week when the

    > > conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    > > coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

    > Davidson is speaking of what CAN ‘get us out of this mess"
    > and you are whining that it hasn’t happened already IN A WEEK!?

    > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAHAHAA

    > That’s it.. you are in the Braindead Bit Bucket with PomPom And BlowJob!

    > >> Already there is progress, of sorts. Last week we
    > >> were talking about a slump on the scale of the Great
    > >> Depression of the 1930s,

    > >>  when unemployment leapt to
    > >> 20 to 30% of the workforce in industrialised countries.

    > >> This week we are talking about a recession involving
    > >> the prospect of negative growth in most industrialised
    > >> countries for one or two quarters early next year and
    > >> weak growth, insufficient to maintain full employment,
    > >> for a couple of years.

    > >> What has caused this transformation? Policymakers
    > >> around the world and the overwhelming majority of
    > >> economic pundits have accepted the practical message
    > >> of Keynesian economics.

    > >> They have abandoned what is known as economic rationalism
    > >> in Australia and as neo-liberalism in the rest of the
    > >> world and accepted the need for hitherto unprecedented
    > >> monetary injections into nations’ income-expenditure
    > >> streams to offset the slump in private spending.

    > >> It took 50 years for the lessons of the Great Depression,
    > >> and the consequent rise of fascism and World War II,
    > >> to be forgotten. It is not surprising that the generation
    > >> who survived that experience were committed to a "belts
    > >> and braces" system of economic management to ensure that
    > >> that global trauma would never happen again — or that
    > >> the generation who replaced them in the 1980s could not
    > >> understand that commitment.

    > >> Ironically, the high prestige of the current generation
    > >> of economic managers was inherited from the success of
    > >> the Keynesians.

    read more »

  27. admin says:

    "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

    news:48f86d28$0$18424$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > DVH wrote:
    >> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    >>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    >>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    >>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>> financial markets have got the world into this mess

    >> No, your premise is wrong.

    > No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    > …to use the technical market term

    No, there is not near-universal acceptance that deregulated financial
    markets have got the world into this mess.

    > From political leaders to Market analysts, brokers to
    > Nobel economists, the clear consensus is a crisis in Market
    > Capitalism caused by exuberant lending leading to fear and panic,

    A lot of empty buzzwords. Doubtless you’re reassured by the fact that
    they’ve all been used a million times before.

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >> Commentary varies.

    > When doesn’t it? We have PomPom blaming the Borrowers,
    > as if Prudential Lending didn’t go out the window with
    > Investment banking, and then we have The clear any unequivocal
    > voice of the market..  fear following greed;

    > "Across the Hudson River in Manhattan, … veteran trader
    > Ted Weisberg goes to work on the floor of the NYSE…

    > Weisburg says “greed” and “fear” have brought the near
    > collapse of the markets where he’s spent his working life."

    > The Greed was ubiquitous in the whole Sub-Prime catastrophe,
    > and nothing could have restrained it once all the Market
    > pieces were in place:

    > Greed from the Shiny suits who invented mortgage Derivatives
    > that pretend to remove risk, but merely hid it (labeled as
    > financial WMD’s by Warren Buffet) to an army of greedy
    > mortgage retailers who lent to people they KNEW could
    > not repay, on loans that ramp up interest rates after a
    > couple of years..because they got bonuses for VOLUME, and they
    > could, for the first time, because of WMD derivatives,
    > play pass the Poison Parcel with the risk…

    > Well that market bubble has burst..  like they all do,
    > and now those responsible are trying to hide because
    > the airborne excrement is burying hundreds of thousands of
    > Americans

    >      but the Market has been unequivocal and the USSA economy,
    >      even before 900 Billion of sub prime poison explodes with the
    >      next automatic rate rise, is plunging into recession.

    > " It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to
    >> prevent just this sort of mess,

    > WTF?  It has NOTHING to do with Mortgage debt derivatives!!  B^P

    You don’t seem to know what you’re talking about. You could do some reading
    to catch up though…

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > It addresses     compliance audits, quality control, Auditor Independence,
    > Corporate Responsibility, Enhanced Financial Disclosures Analyst Conflicts
    > of Interest, Commission Resources and Authority,
    > Studies and Reports, Corporate and Criminal Fraud Accountability,
    > White Collar Crime Penalty Enhancement and Corporate Tax Returns.

    > The crisis at core, exist because the market produced PERFECTLY
    > LEGAL Financial WMD’s, new, but ultimately TOXIC, financial
    > instruments, which APPEARED to remove risk from retail lenders,
    > thus removing all constraint on their lending prudence..
    >  ..their greed was UNRESTRAINED!!!

    > > but obviously failed.

    > Regulation clearly aimed at tightening fraud or white collar
    > crime, was not aimed at preventing the legal folly of the Market,
    > nor at outlawing insane greed…

    >   we have yet to seriously address how to do that.   ;-)

    >> Financial markets are highly regulated.

    > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA!

    And from hereonin the shouty caps multiply, as if they’re going to add any
    weight to your highly emotional screed.

    <snipped unreadable junk>

  28. admin says:

    <parri…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

    news:430ff5d2-0159-40da-b9ac-4f42585d63a6@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com…
    On 17 Okt, 12:47, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > DVH wrote:
    > > "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > >news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    > >> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    > >> – Kenneth Davidson 16/10/2008

    > >> This bloke is the real McCoy!

    > >> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    > >> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    > >> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    > >> financial markets have got the world into this mess

    > > No, your premise is wrong.

    > No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    > …to use the technical market term

    > From political leaders to Market analysts, brokers to
    > Nobel economists, the clear consensus is a crisis in Market
    > Capitalism caused by exuberant lending leading to fear and panic,

    > > Commentary varies.

    > When doesn’t it? We have PomPom blaming the Borrowers,
    > as if Prudential Lending didn’t go out the window with
    > Investment banking, and then we have The clear any unequivocal
    > voice of the market.. fear following greed;

    > "Across the Hudson River in Manhattan, … veteran trader
    > Ted Weisberg goes to work on the floor of the NYSE…

    > Weisburg says “greed” and “fear” have brought the near
    > collapse of the markets where he’s spent his working life."

    > The Greed was ubiquitous in the whole Sub-Prime catastrophe,
    > and nothing could have restrained it once all the Market
    > pieces were in place:

    > Greed from the Shiny suits who invented mortgage Derivatives
    > that pretend to remove risk, but merely hid it (labeled as
    > financial WMD’s by Warren Buffet) to an army of greedy
    > mortgage retailers who lent to people they KNEW could
    > not repay, on loans that ramp up interest rates after a
    > couple of years..because they got bonuses for VOLUME, and they
    > could, for the first time, because of WMD derivatives,
    > play pass the Poison Parcel with the risk…

    > Well that market bubble has burst.. like they all do,
    > and now those responsible are trying to hide because
    > the airborne excrement is burying hundreds of thousands of
    > Americans

    > but the Market has been unequivocal and the USSA economy,
    > even before 900 Billion of sub prime poison explodes with the
    > next automatic rate rise, is plunging into recession.

    > " It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to

    > > prevent just this sort of mess,

    > WTF? It has NOTHING to do with Mortgage debt derivatives!! B^P

    > It addresses compliance audits, quality control, Auditor
    > Independence, Corporate Responsibility, Enhanced Financial Disclosures
    > Analyst Conflicts of Interest, Commission Resources and Authority,
    > Studies and Reports, Corporate and Criminal Fraud Accountability,
    > White Collar Crime Penalty Enhancement and Corporate Tax Returns.

    > The crisis at core, exist because the market produced PERFECTLY
    > LEGAL Financial WMD’s, new, but ultimately TOXIC, financial
    > instruments, which APPEARED to remove risk from retail lenders,
    > thus removing all constraint on their lending prudence..
    > ..their greed was UNRESTRAINED!!!

    > > but obviously failed.

    > Regulation clearly aimed at tightening fraud or white collar
    > crime, was not aimed at preventing the legal folly of the Market,
    > nor at outlawing insane greed…

    > we have yet to seriously address how to do that. ;-)

    > > Financial markets are highly regulated.

    > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA!

    > Having a LOT of regulation, all run by the graduates of
    > Goldman Sachs and proud Friedmanites, under a government
    > that was profoundly de-regulatory means you got an economy
    > that tore up the rule book as certainly as Bush tore up
    > your constitutional rights and freedoms, while pretending
    > to protect them!!!! B^D

    > You have Political frauds appointing Goldman Sachs Free-market
    > neo-liberals to head the Fed!!! B^D

    > It’s like putting the Beagle Boys in charge of the safe! B^D

    > The goal of Big Capital is to make sure that after each crisis,
    > the response is to put in just enough window dressing to prevent
    > the LAST fuck-up from recurring, but not to curtail the next
    > clever financial instrument that can enable shearing the sheep..

    > Milkin and Junk bonds –> some concessions to tighten THAT
    > specific problem..

    > toxic sub-prime mortgage derivatives—> you don’t need to
    > hang the last Investment banker in the entrails of the last
    > hedge fund.. they have already imploded.

    > But, here’s the difference, this has been SO SEVERE across
    > the globe that you are going to see more of what has already
    > happened in response.. global co-operation, strengthening
    > and reforming global financial institutions, creating new
    > ones, and because the USSA hasn’t even started to feel the
    > pain, they, under new management, will be taking a renewed
    > role in multilateral approaches and global solutions! B^)

    > Read Prof Fariborz Moshirian in the Fin Review 15/10/2008
    > for an excellent article on why this crisis is an OPPORTUNITY! B^D
    > "Nothing Like a Crisis to Make it All Better."

    > > The question may be one of bad
    > > regulation versus good regulation.

    > That is always the question. Just as there are good market
    > operations and bad market operations.

    > It is a fallacy to blame Market failure on regulatory failure,
    > that is like blaming the police for failing to prevent you
    > shooting your wife, and excusing yourself.

    > Robert Fuld and the AIG CEO’s did precisely that when before
    > Congress.

    > Since explaining that I agree with reality, = mixed economies,
    > because all the worlds economies are mixed ..free market AND
    > socialism, the only questions are what regulation you have,
    > how much, how it operates, what it costs, where it functions..

    > I’m not interested in creating large bureaucracies for
    > centralized command and control.. [decades ago the
    > Cybernetician Norbert Wiener’s experiment in Chile to
    > integrate economic information systems, was cut off
    > by the CIA coup against Allende, and clearly our global
    > IT systems, while interdependent, are not sufficiently
    > integrated to enable even a global overview]… it may be
    > more a matter of expanding warnings and, mandating
    > greater disclosure, because the GREAT failure of the Market
    > was that so few voices were raised to warn people, and none of them
    > came from either government or Market institutions, because
    > they are firmly in the hands of the economic elites.

    > > Equally the question may be one of transparency.

    > The Hedge funds have achieved it, post-apocalypse! B^D

    > Every time I refer to transparency, accountability..
    > even Prudence, PomPom and BJ call me a Communist.

    > > The ratings agencies have

    > > been doing a poor job as outsourced risk assessors for the banks.

    > It’s a systemic market failure.

    > >> and only governments, acting co-operatively to
    > >> "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
    > >> — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
    > >> of the mess.

    > > The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    > You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    > and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    > So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    > to the USSA are doing, you seem to be the blithering idiot

    > "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    > Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    > reached a turning point.

    > The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    > to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    > as well as guarantees."

    > ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
    > financial markets is now needed."

    > > We’ve had less than a week when the

    > > conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    > > coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

    > Davidson is speaking of what CAN ‘get us out of this mess"
    > and you are whining that it hasn’t happened already IN A WEEK!?

    > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAHAHAA

    > That’s it.. you are in the Braindead Bit Bucket with PomPom And BlowJob!

    > >> Already there is progress, of sorts. Last week we
    > >> were talking about a slump on the scale of the Great
    > >> Depression of the 1930s,

    > >> when unemployment leapt to
    > >> 20 to 30% of the workforce in industrialised countries.

    > >> This week we are talking about a recession involving
    > >> the prospect of negative growth in most industrialised
    > >> countries for one or two quarters early next year and
    > >> weak growth, insufficient to maintain full employment,
    > >> for a couple of years.

    > >> What has caused this transformation? Policymakers
    > >> around the world and the overwhelming majority of
    > >> economic pundits have accepted the practical message
    > >> of Keynesian economics.

    > >> They have abandoned what is known as economic rationalism
    > >> in Australia and as neo-liberalism in the rest of the
    > >> world and accepted the need for hitherto unprecedented
    > >> monetary injections into nations’ income-expenditure
    > >> streams to offset the slump in private spending.

    > >> It took 50 years for the lessons of the Great Depression,
    > >> and the consequent rise of fascism and World War II,
    > >> to be forgotten. It is not surprising that the generation
    > >> who survived that experience were committed to a "belts
    > >> and braces" system of economic management to ensure that
    > >> that global trauma would never happen again — or that
    > >> the generation who replaced them in the 1980s could not
    > >> understand that commitment.

    > >> Ironically, the high prestige of the current generation
    > >> of economic managers was inherited from the success of
    > >> the Keynesians. Yet they are,

    read more »

  29. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    DVH wrote:
    > <parri…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:430ff5d2-0159-40da-b9ac-4f42585d63a6@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com…
    > On 17 Okt, 12:47, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> DVH wrote:
    >>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>> – Kenneth Davidson 16/10/2008
    >>>> This bloke is the real McCoy!
    >>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.
    >>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess
    >>> No, your premise is wrong.
    >> No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    >> …to use the technical market term

    >> From political leaders to Market analysts, brokers to
    >> Nobel economists, the clear consensus is a crisis in Market
    >> Capitalism caused by exuberant lending leading to fear and panic,

    >>> Commentary varies.
    >> When doesn’t it? We have PomPom blaming the Borrowers,
    >> as if Prudential Lending didn’t go out the window with
    >> Investment banking, and then we have The clear any unequivocal
    >> voice of the market.. fear following greed;

    >> "Across the Hudson River in Manhattan, … veteran trader
    >> Ted Weisberg goes to work on the floor of the NYSE…

    >> Weisburg says “greed” and “fear” have brought the near
    >> collapse of the markets where he’s spent his working life."

    >> The Greed was ubiquitous in the whole Sub-Prime catastrophe,
    >> and nothing could have restrained it once all the Market
    >> pieces were in place:

    >> Greed from the Shiny suits who invented mortgage Derivatives
    >> that pretend to remove risk, but merely hid it (labeled as
    >> financial WMD’s by Warren Buffet) to an army of greedy
    >> mortgage retailers who lent to people they KNEW could
    >> not repay, on loans that ramp up interest rates after a
    >> couple of years..because they got bonuses for VOLUME, and they
    >> could, for the first time, because of WMD derivatives,
    >> play pass the Poison Parcel with the risk…

    >> Well that market bubble has burst.. like they all do,
    >> and now those responsible are trying to hide because
    >> the airborne excrement is burying hundreds of thousands of
    >> Americans

    >> but the Market has been unequivocal and the USSA economy,
    >> even before 900 Billion of sub prime poison explodes with the
    >> next automatic rate rise, is plunging into recession.

    >> " It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to

    >>> prevent just this sort of mess,
    >> WTF? It has NOTHING to do with Mortgage debt derivatives!! B^P

    >> It addresses compliance audits, quality control, Auditor
    >> Independence, Corporate Responsibility, Enhanced Financial Disclosures
    >> Analyst Conflicts of Interest, Commission Resources and Authority,
    >> Studies and Reports, Corporate and Criminal Fraud Accountability,
    >> White Collar Crime Penalty Enhancement and Corporate Tax Returns.

    >> The crisis at core, exist because the market produced PERFECTLY
    >> LEGAL Financial WMD’s, new, but ultimately TOXIC, financial
    >> instruments, which APPEARED to remove risk from retail lenders,
    >> thus removing all constraint on their lending prudence..
    >> ..their greed was UNRESTRAINED!!!

    >>> but obviously failed.
    >> Regulation clearly aimed at tightening fraud or white collar
    >> crime, was not aimed at preventing the legal folly of the Market,
    >> nor at outlawing insane greed…

    >> we have yet to seriously address how to do that. ;-)

    >>> Financial markets are highly regulated.
    >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA!

    >> Having a LOT of regulation, all run by the graduates of
    >> Goldman Sachs and proud Friedmanites, under a government
    >> that was profoundly de-regulatory means you got an economy
    >> that tore up the rule book as certainly as Bush tore up
    >> your constitutional rights and freedoms, while pretending
    >> to protect them!!!! B^D

    >> You have Political frauds appointing Goldman Sachs Free-market
    >> neo-liberals to head the Fed!!! B^D

    >> It’s like putting the Beagle Boys in charge of the safe! B^D

    >> The goal of Big Capital is to make sure that after each crisis,
    >> the response is to put in just enough window dressing to prevent
    >> the LAST fuck-up from recurring, but not to curtail the next
    >> clever financial instrument that can enable shearing the sheep..

    >> Milkin and Junk bonds –> some concessions to tighten THAT
    >> specific problem..

    >> toxic sub-prime mortgage derivatives—> you don’t need to
    >> hang the last Investment banker in the entrails of the last
    >> hedge fund.. they have already imploded.

    >> But, here’s the difference, this has been SO SEVERE across
    >> the globe that you are going to see more of what has already
    >> happened in response.. global co-operation, strengthening
    >> and reforming global financial institutions, creating new
    >> ones, and because the USSA hasn’t even started to feel the
    >> pain, they, under new management, will be taking a renewed
    >> role in multilateral approaches and global solutions! B^)

    >> Read Prof Fariborz Moshirian in the Fin Review 15/10/2008
    >> for an excellent article on why this crisis is an OPPORTUNITY! B^D
    >> "Nothing Like a Crisis to Make it All Better."

    >>> The question may be one of bad
    >>> regulation versus good regulation.
    >> That is always the question. Just as there are good market
    >> operations and bad market operations.

    >> It is a fallacy to blame Market failure on regulatory failure,
    >> that is like blaming the police for failing to prevent you
    >> shooting your wife, and excusing yourself.

    >> Robert Fuld and the AIG CEO’s did precisely that when before
    >> Congress.

    >> Since explaining that I agree with reality, = mixed economies,
    >> because all the worlds economies are mixed ..free market AND
    >> socialism, the only questions are what regulation you have,
    >> how much, how it operates, what it costs, where it functions..

    >> I’m not interested in creating large bureaucracies for
    >> centralized command and control.. [decades ago the
    >> Cybernetician Norbert Wiener’s experiment in Chile to
    >> integrate economic information systems, was cut off
    >> by the CIA coup against Allende, and clearly our global
    >> IT systems, while interdependent, are not sufficiently
    >> integrated to enable even a global overview]… it may be
    >> more a matter of expanding warnings and, mandating
    >> greater disclosure, because the GREAT failure of the Market
    >> was that so few voices were raised to warn people, and none of them
    >> came from either government or Market institutions, because
    >> they are firmly in the hands of the economic elites.

    >>> Equally the question may be one of transparency.
    >> The Hedge funds have achieved it, post-apocalypse! B^D

    >> Every time I refer to transparency, accountability..
    >> even Prudence, PomPom and BJ call me a Communist.

    >>> The ratings agencies have
    >>> been doing a poor job as outsourced risk assessors for the banks.
    >> It’s a systemic market failure.

    >>>> and only governments, acting co-operatively to
    >>>> "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
    >>>> — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
    >>>> of the mess.
    >>> The writer’s a blithering idiot.
    >> You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    >> and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    >> So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    >> to the USSA are doing, you seem to be the blithering idiot

    >> "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    >> Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    >> reached a turning point.

    >> The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    >> to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    >> as well as guarantees."

    >> ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
    >> financial markets is now needed."

    >>> We’ve had less than a week when the
    >>> conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    >>> coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.
    >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

    >> Davidson is speaking of what CAN ‘get us out of this mess"
    >> and you are whining that it hasn’t happened already IN A WEEK!?

    >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAHAHAA

    >> That’s it.. you are in the Braindead Bit Bucket with PomPom And BlowJob!

    >>>> Already there is progress, of sorts. Last week we
    >>>> were talking about a slump on the scale of the Great
    >>>> Depression of the 1930s,
    >>>> when unemployment leapt to
    >>>> 20 to 30% of the workforce in industrialised countries.
    >>>> This week we are talking about a recession involving
    >>>> the prospect of negative growth in most industrialised
    >>>> countries for one or two quarters early next year and
    >>>> weak growth, insufficient to maintain full employment,
    >>>> for a couple of years.
    >>>> What has caused this transformation? Policymakers
    >>>> around the world and the overwhelming majority of
    >>>> economic pundits have accepted the practical message
    >>>> of Keynesian economics.
    >>>> They have abandoned what is known as economic rationalism
    >>>> in Australia and as neo-liberalism in the rest of the
    >>>> world and accepted the need for hitherto unprecedented
    >>>> monetary injections into nations’ income-expenditure
    >>>> streams to offset the slump in private spending.
    >>>> It took 50 years for the lessons of the Great Depression,
    >>>> and the consequent rise of fascism and World War II,
    >>>> to be forgotten. It is not surprising that the generation
    >>>> who survived that experience were committed to a "belts
    >>>> and braces" system of economic management to ensure that
    >>>> that global trauma would never happen again — or that
    >>>> the generation who replaced them in the 1980s could not
    >>>> understand that commitment.
    >>>> Ironically, the

    read more »

  30. admin says:

    On 17 Okt, 13:00, "DVH" <d…@vhvhvhvh.com> wrote:

    > <parri…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

    > news:430ff5d2-0159-40da-b9ac-4f42585d63a6@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com…
    > On 17 Okt, 12:47, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    <serrrr-nip>

    > > You’re a fucking fool aashgdaf. But most people knew that already, I
    > > suppose.

    > You read to the end? You’re more tolerant than me.

    Good god, no. Skimmed and then scrolled when it became obvious it was
    one of his boilerplate "chop your opponents reply to hell to try and
    sound clever while ignoring every salient point" screeds.  I should
    have snipped instead..

  31. admin says:

    parri…@yahoo.com wrote:
    > On 17 Okt, 12:47, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> DVH wrote:
    >>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008
    >>>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!
    >>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.
    >>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess


    <snip all the points conceded by DVH>

     >>

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >>> The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    >> You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    >> and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    >> So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    >> to the USSA are doing,  you seem to be the blithering idiot

    >> "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    >> Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    >> reached a turning point.

    >> The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    >> to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    >> as well as guarantees."

    >> ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
    >>    financial markets is now needed."

    >>> We’ve had less than a week when the
    >>> conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    >>> coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    And the LIBOR rate has since dropped two days running!!!!

    The Market is starting to come out of it’s Credit Coma
    as a result of co-ordinated global socialist action by Europe,
    the USSA,G7 and G20 nations.

    [The SubPrime catastrophe still hasn’t even reached
    the mature larval stage.  ;-]

    But your notion that a Socialist intervention a week ago
    should instantly fix a decade of Capitalist Contagion
    is really funny, …and very naive, (in a non-charming way B^)

    >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

    >> Davidson is speaking of what CAN ‘get us out of this mess"
    >> and you are whining that it hasn’t happened already IN A WEEK!?

     >
     > But most people knew that already, I suppose.

    If they did, i wouldn’t have to tell them.

    And all you, DVH and Blow Job will do is stand around
    and toolfondle each other, which will be even funnier
    than DVH claiming Socialism should have fixed it all
    in a WEEK!

    At least Dumb Vogon Handjob had a go, Paris, you should
    stick to getting fucked on video, because it didn’t take long
    to do you in Usenet,  …and you weren’t very good.  ;-)

    Next time, wiggle a bit.    B^D

      ———

             "Ohhhhh Say can you see
                   By the dawns early light
              The markets in panic
                  and Republicans take flight! "

      ———

        "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
       Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
       Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

        http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

      ———

  32. admin says:

    I just noticed that you surreptitiously removed
    alt.politics.democrats from the NGs..  I know why,
    you really don’t want them reading about Phil Gramm.

    DVH wrote:

     > "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
     > news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
     >>
     >> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
     >>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008
     >>
     >>         This bloke is the real McCoy!
     >>
     >>
     >> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.
     >>
     >> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
     >> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
     >> financial markets have got the world into this mess
     >
     > No, your premise is wrong.

    No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    …to use the technical market term

      From political leaders to Market analysts, brokers to
    Nobel economists, the clear consensus is a crisis in Market
    Capitalism caused by exuberant lending leading to fear and panic,

     > Commentary varies.

    When doesn’t it? We have PomPom blaming the Borrowers,
    as if Prudential Lending didn’t go out the window with
    Investment banking, and then we have The clear any unequivocal
    voice of the market..  fear following greed;

    "Across the Hudson River in Manhattan, … veteran trader
    Ted Weisberg goes to work on the floor of the NYSE…

    Weisburg says “greed” and “fear” have brought the near
    collapse of the markets where he’s spent his working life."

    The Greed was ubiquitous in the whole Sub-Prime catastrophe,
    and nothing could have restrained it once all the Market
    pieces were in place:

    Greed from the Shiny suits who invented mortgage Derivatives
    that pretend to remove risk, but merely hid it (labeled as
    financial WMD’s by Warren Buffet) to an army of greedy
    mortgage retailers who lent to people they KNEW could
    not repay, on loans that ramp up interest rates after a
    couple of years..because they got bonuses for VOLUME, and they
    could, for the first time, because of WMD derivatives,
    play pass the Poison Parcel with the risk…

    Well that market bubble has burst..  like they all do,
    and now those responsible are trying to hide because
    the airborne excrement is burying hundreds of thousands of
    Americans

           but the Market has been unequivocal and the USSA economy,
           even before 900 Billion of sub prime poison explodes with the
           next automatic rate rise, is plunging into recession.

    " It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to
     > prevent just this sort of mess,

    WTF?  It has NOTHING to do with Mortgage debt derivatives!!  B^P

    It addresses     compliance audits, quality control, Auditor
    Independence, Corporate Responsibility, Enhanced Financial Disclosures
    Analyst Conflicts of Interest, Commission Resources and Authority,
    Studies and Reports, Corporate and Criminal Fraud Accountability,
    White Collar Crime Penalty Enhancement and Corporate Tax Returns.

    The crisis at core, exist because the market produced PERFECTLY
    LEGAL Financial WMD’s, new, but ultimately TOXIC, financial
    instruments, which APPEARED to remove risk from retail lenders,
    thus removing all constraint on their lending prudence..
       ..their greed was UNRESTRAINED!!!

      > but obviously failed.

    Regulation clearly aimed at tightening fraud or white collar
    crime, was not aimed at preventing the legal folly of the Market,
    nor at outlawing insane greed…

        we have yet to seriously address how to do that.   ;-)

     > Financial markets are highly regulated.

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA!

    Having a LOT of regulation, all run by the graduates of
    Goldman Sachs and proud Friedmanites, under a government
    that was profoundly de-regulatory means you got an economy
    that tore up the rule book as certainly as Bush tore up
    your constitutional rights and freedoms, while pretending
    to protect them!!!!   B^D

    You have Political frauds appointing Goldman Sachs Free-market
    neo-liberals to head the Fed!!!   B^D

    It’s like putting the Beagle Boys in charge of the safe!  B^D

    The goal of Big Capital is to make sure that after each crisis,
    the response is to put in just enough window dressing to prevent
    the LAST fuck-up from recurring, but not to curtail the next
    clever financial instrument that can enable shearing the sheep..

    Milkin and Junk bonds –>  some concessions to tighten THAT
    specific problem..

    toxic sub-prime mortgage derivatives—> you don’t need to
    hang the last Investment banker in the entrails of the last
    hedge fund..   they have already imploded.

    But, here’s the difference, this has been SO SEVERE across
    the globe that you are going to see more of what has already
    happened in response..  global co-operation, strengthening
    and reforming global financial institutions, creating new
    ones,  and because the USSA hasn’t even started to feel the
    pain, they, under new management, will be taking a renewed
    role in multilateral approaches and global solutions!   B^)

    Read Prof Fariborz Moshirian in the Fin Review 15/10/2008
    for an excellent article on why this crisis is an OPPORTUNITY!  B^D
    "Nothing Like a Crisis to Make it All Better."

     > The question may be one of bad
     > regulation versus good regulation.

    That is always the question.  Just as there are good market
    operations and bad market operations.

    It is a fallacy to blame Market failure on regulatory failure,
    that is like blaming the police for failing to prevent you
    shooting your wife, and excusing yourself.

    Robert Fuld and the AIG CEO’s did precisely that when before
    Congress.

    Since explaining that I agree with reality, = mixed economies,
    because all the worlds economies are mixed ..free market AND
    socialism, the only questions are what regulation you have,
    how much, how it operates, what it costs, where it functions..

    I’m not interested in creating large bureaucracies for
    centralized command and control..  [decades ago the
    Cybernetician Norbert Wiener’s experiment in Chile to
    integrate economic information systems, was cut off
    by the CIA coup against Allende, and clearly our global
    IT systems, while interdependent, are not sufficiently
    integrated to enable even a global overview]…  it may be
    more a matter of expanding warnings and, mandating
    greater disclosure, because the GREAT failure of the Market
    was that so few voices were raised to warn people, and none of them
    came from either government or Market institutions, because
    they are firmly in the hands of the economic elites.

     > Equally the question may be one of transparency.

    The   Hedge funds have achieved it, post-apocalypse!   B^D

    Every time I refer to transparency, accountability..
    even Prudence,  PomPom and BJ call me a Communist.

      > The ratings agencies have
     > been doing a poor job as outsourced risk assessors for the banks.

    It’s a systemic market failure.

     >> and only governments, acting co-operatively to
     >> "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
     >> — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
     >> of the mess.
     >
     > The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    to the USSA are doing,  you seem to be the blithering idiot

    "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    reached a turning point.

    The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    as well as guarantees."

    ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
        financial markets is now needed."

     > We’ve had less than a week when the conditions above
     > have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
     > coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

    Davidson is speaking of what CAN ‘get us out of this mess"
    and you are whining that it hasn’t happened already IN A WEEK!?

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAHAHAA

    That’s it.. you are in the Braindead Bit Bucket with PomPom And BlowJob!

      ———

             "Ohhhhh Say can you see
                   By the dawns early light
              The markets in panic
                  and Republicans take flight! "

      ———

        "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
       Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
       Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

        http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

      ———

  33. admin says:

    "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

    news:48f8afd9$0$31804$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > parri…@yahoo.com wrote:
    >> On 17 Okt, 12:47, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>> DVH wrote:
    >>>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008
    >>>>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!
    >>>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.
    >>>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess
    > …
    > <snip all the points conceded by DVH>

    >>>> The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    >>> You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    >>> and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    >>> So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    >>> to the USSA are doing,  you seem to be the blithering idiot

    >>> "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    >>> Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    >>> reached a turning point.

    >>> The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    >>> to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    >>> as well as guarantees."

    >>> ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
    >>>    financial markets is now needed."

    >>>> We’ve had less than a week when the
    >>>> conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    >>>> coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    > And the LIBOR rate has since dropped two days running!!!!

    > The Market is starting to come out of it’s Credit Coma
    > as a result of co-ordinated global socialist action by Europe,
    > the USSA,G7 and G20 nations.

    > [The SubPrime catastrophe still hasn’t even reached
    > the mature larval stage.  ;-]

    > But your notion that a Socialist intervention a week ago
    > should instantly fix a decade of Capitalist Contagion
    > is really funny, …and very naive, (in a non-charming way B^)

    A notion you’ve conjured out of thin air.

    <snipped>

  34. admin says:

    "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

    news:48f8b3b3$0$4451$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…

    >I just noticed that you surreptitiously removed
    > alt.politics.democrats from the NGs..  I know why,

    You don’t know anything.

    <snipped>

  35. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    DVH wrote:
    > "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:48f86d28$0$18424$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >> DVH wrote:
    >>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >>>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    >>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    >>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess
    >>> No, your premise is wrong.
    >> No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    >> …to use the technical market term

    > No, there is not near-universal acceptance that deregulated financial
    > markets have got the world into this mess.

    Note the date, people were aware of the Republican
    Deregulation push long before this crisis broke:

    "McCain guru linked to subprime crisis"
          28/3/08
          http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9246.html

    "The general co-chairman of John McCain’s presidential
    campaign, former Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas), led the
    charge in 1999 to repeal a Depression-era banking
    regulation law that Democrat Barack Obama claimed
    on Thursday contributed significantly to today’s
    economic turmoil.

    “A regulatory structure set up for banks in the
    1930s needed to change because the nature of business
    had changed,” the Illinois senator running for president
    said in a New York economic speech. “But by the time
    [it] was repealed in 1999, the $300 million lobbying
    effort that drove deregulation was more about
    facilitating mergers than creating an efficient
    regulatory framework.”

         300 million lobbying effort..

    Gramm’s role in the swift and dramatic recent
    restructuring of the nation’s investment houses
    and practices didn’t stop there.

    A year after the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed
    the old regulations, Swiss Bank UBS gobbled up
    brokerage house Paine Weber. Two years later,
    Gramm settled in as a vice chairman of UBS’s new
    investment banking arm.

    Later, he became a major player in its government
    affairs operation. According to federal lobbying
    disclosure records, Gramm lobbied Congress, the
    Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department about
    banking and mortgage issues in 2005 and 2006.

    During those years, the mortgage industry pressed
    Congress to roll back strong state rules that sought
    to stem the rise of predatory tactics used by lenders
    and brokers to place homeowners in high-cost mortgages.

    For his work, Gramm and two other lobbyists collected
    $750,000 in fees from UBS’s American subsidiary.
    In the past year, UBS has written down more than
    $18 billion in exposure to subprime loans and other
    risky securities and is considering cutting as many
    as 8,000 jobs.

    Gramm did not respond to an e-mail and was unavailable
    for comment, according to a UBS spokesman.
    The bank has no official position on the subprime crisis,
    the spokesman said, but is a member of the Financial
    Services Roundtable and other industry groups that are
    actively lobbying Congress on the issue.

    Now, some housing experts and economists see Gramm’s
    thinking in the recent housing proposal from McCain,
    the Republican Party’s presumed presidential nominee.
    Gramm is often a surrogate for the Arizona senator,
    particularly in meetings focused on the economy.
    And McCain has hinted he’d consider the former Texas
    senator for Treasury secretary in a McCain administration.

    McCain delivered an economic speech Tuesday that had
    Gramm’s input, but it was written by domestic policy
    adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

    “Sen. Gramm was one of dozens of folks whom Sen.
    McCain has consulted on the housing issue, including
    Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman from eBay," said McCain
    campaign spokesman Brian Rogers. "They’ve been friends
    for years, and he values Sen. Gramm’s advice."

    In the speech, McCain rejected the type of aggressive
    government intervention in the economic meltdown that
    has been embraced by his Democratic opponents — and
    even some Bush advisers.

    “I have always been committed to the principle that it
    is not the duty of government to bail out and reward
    those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big
    banks or small borrowers,” McCain said. “Government
    assistance to the banking system should be based
    solely on preventing systemic risk that would endanger
    the entire financial system and the economy.”

         Apparently McCains ‘committment to the principle"
         is about as strong as the USSA regulatory environment
         after his mates ripped it up!!!

    "McCain’s campaign later clarified that he would support
    programs for “deserving” homeowners and reforms that
    would improve transparency and accountability in capital
    markets.

    Andrew Jakabovics, a housing expert at the liberal
    Center for American Progress, said McCain’s interpretation
    of the crisis puts little blame on investment banks for
    their role in packaging the subprime loans into dangerously
    complex and ultimately hard-to-value financial instruments."

         Like Bush, and all the others trying to coverup they
         blame ‘cheap money’   The Very think Capitalism desires most!!!

         Apparently they think if I give you a knife and you cut
         your throat, after cutting the throats of a dozen others,
         rather than using it to slice bread.. it’s MY fault for
         ’arming an idiot’!!    B^D

          That is their diversionary argument to hide the facts
          about dodgy sub-prime derivatives, that hid risk,
          they talk about "the Fed printing Money" "cheap funds"
          as if the ONLY thing the Market could do with them is
          lend them to people who couldn’t repay!!!   B^D

          It is hilarious, it makes Capitalism sound even more
          failed than the truth!!! And yet that was the line Bush
          trotted out in his address to the US Chamber of Comrades, er
          i mean ‘Commerce’!  B^)

          In the old days, if you lent money imprudently, you lost it!

          But once you could pass the RISK on to someone else through
          the ‘packaging of subprime loans into dangerously
          complex and ultimately hard-to-value financial instruments’
          then you were on the road to ruin..  With The Republicans
          driving and pulling out all the airbags and safety features
          as they went!

    “I’d characterize this as the deux ex machina theory of
    financial products,” Jakabovics said. “He views this as a
    market problem that manifests at the local level as housing,
    meaning he’s more likely to argue in favor of these guys
    when they argue for deregulation.”

    Wall Street firms are increasingly under scrutiny for
    contributing to the economic downturn by packaging and
    selling risky mortgage securities. When the home loans
    tied to the mortgages defaulted, investors and the banks
    lost billions, contributing to a widespread credit crunch.

    “I think [McCain’s] attitude is the market can basically
    handle this and government doesn’t need to be heavily
    involved,” said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard
    and Poor’s.

    McCain and Gramm have a long political history. The two
    became close when they worked together as senators to
    defeat Hillary Rodham Clinton’s 1993 health care plan,
    holding meetings at hospitals and clinics across the country.

    In 1996, McCain was national chairman of Gramm’s unsuccessful
    presidential bid.

    In 2000, the duo had a rare parting when Gramm backed his
    home-state governor, George W. Bush, for president instead
    of McCain. But they’ve reunited in this presidential race.

    Gramm stood by his former Senate colleague in his worst
    days last summer when his campaign went broke and his
    candidacy was all but written off by political observers.

    Gramm, who had joined the campaign in March as a domestic
    policy adviser, was among those who helped cut staff and
    shrink the budgets. He traveled with McCain in Iowa,
    New Hampshire and South Carolina and stumped for him in
    Georgia. "

      ———
    The wisdom of Phil Gramm, Social Darwinist:

    "I have as many guns as I need, but I don’t have as many guns as I want."

    "Most people don’t have the luxury of living to be 80 years old, so it’s
    hard for me to feel sorry for them."

    "I recently told Ed Whitacre [former CEO of AT&T, who retired with a
    $158 million pay package] he was probably the most exploited worker in
    American history"

      ———

    "Gramm was one of five co-sponsors of the Commodity Futures
    Modernization Act of 2000[8]. One provision of the bill was
    referred to as the "Enron loophole" because the House Agriculture
    Committee drafted it and it was later applied to Enron. Some critics
    blame the provision for permitting the Enron scandal to occur."

      ———

             "Ohhhhh Say can you see
                   By the dawns early light
              The markets in panic
                  and Republicans take flight! "

      ———

        "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
       Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
       Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

        http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

      ———

  36. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    DVH wrote:
    > "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:48f86d28$0$18424$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >> DVH wrote:
    >>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >>>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    >>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    >>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess

    >>> No, your premise is wrong.

    >> No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    >> …to use the technical market term

    > No, there is not near-universal acceptance that deregulated financial
    > markets have got the world into this mess.

    See

    # Subject: McCains Guru, Phil Gramm and his role in the
    #         deregulation leading to the Sub-Prime Crisis
    #         Re: "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    # Message-ID: <48f8b9d3$0$18426$afc38…@news.optusnet.com.au>
    # Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:14:23 +1100
    # From: fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com>

    >> From political leaders to Market analysts, brokers to
    >> Nobel economists, the clear consensus is a crisis in Market
    >> Capitalism caused by exuberant lending leading to fear and panic,

    > A lot of empty buzzwords.

    Tell me the ones you don’t understand and i will explain them for you.

    it’s the language used by Market operatives..  clearly you know
    nothing about the market. (that was obvious from your suggestion
    that Sarbanes Oxley addressed toxic derivatives and Sub-prime lending!

    What a Howler that was!   B^D

    > Doubtless you’re reassured by the fact that
    > they’ve all been used a million times before.

    Doubtless you are troubled that you don’t know what common
    terms mean and cannot discuss them in any meaningful way

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >>> Commentary varies.

    >> When doesn’t it? We have PomPom blaming the Borrowers,
    >> as if Prudential Lending didn’t go out the window with
    >> Investment banking, and then we have The clear any unequivocal
    >> voice of the market..  fear following greed;

    >> "Across the Hudson River in Manhattan, … veteran trader
    >> Ted Weisberg goes to work on the floor of the NYSE…

    >> Weisburg says “greed” and “fear” have brought the near
    >> collapse of the markets where he’s spent his working life."

    >> The Greed was ubiquitous in the whole Sub-Prime catastrophe,
    >> and nothing could have restrained it once all the Market
    >> pieces were in place:

    >> Greed from the Shiny suits who invented mortgage Derivatives
    >> that pretend to remove risk, but merely hid it (labeled as
    >> financial WMD’s by Warren Buffet) to an army of greedy
    >> mortgage retailers who lent to people they KNEW could
    >> not repay, on loans that ramp up interest rates after a
    >> couple of years..because they got bonuses for VOLUME, and they
    >> could, for the first time, because of WMD derivatives,
    >> play pass the Poison Parcel with the risk…

    >> Well that market bubble has burst..  like they all do,
    >> and now those responsible are trying to hide because
    >> the airborne excrement is burying hundreds of thousands of
    >> Americans

    >>      but the Market has been unequivocal and the USSA economy,
    >>      even before 900 Billion of sub prime poison explodes with the
    >>      next automatic rate rise, is plunging into recession.

    >> " It’s been pointed out that Sarbanes Oxley was designed to
    >>> prevent just this sort of mess,

    >> WTF?  It has NOTHING to do with Mortgage debt derivatives!!  B^P

    > You don’t seem to know what you’re talking about. You could do some reading
    > to catch up though…

    Then cite the sections of Sarbanes Oxley you claim were specifically
    designed to address the dodgy derivatives and predatory lending that
    caused the subprime mess.

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >> It addresses compliance audits, quality control, Auditor Independence,
    >> Corporate Responsibility, Enhanced Financial Disclosures Analyst Conflicts
    >> of Interest, Commission Resources and Authority,
    >> Studies and Reports, Corporate and Criminal Fraud Accountability,
    >> White Collar Crime Penalty Enhancement and Corporate Tax Returns.

    >> The crisis at core, exist because the market produced PERFECTLY
    >> LEGAL Financial WMD’s, new, but ultimately TOXIC, financial
    >> instruments, which APPEARED to remove risk from retail lenders,
    >> thus removing all constraint on their lending prudence..
    >>  ..their greed was UNRESTRAINED!!!

    >>> but obviously failed.
    >> Regulation clearly aimed at tightening fraud or white collar
    >> crime, was not aimed at preventing the legal folly of the Market,
    >> nor at outlawing insane greed…

    >>   we have yet to seriously address how to do that.   ;-)

    >>> Financial markets are highly regulated.

    >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA!

    > And from hereonin the shouty caps multiply,

    You are a liar, as anyone can see when I replace the arguments
    you have run away from.

    Piss weak.. when you realized you had no rebuttal you folded
    faster than the deck chairs on the Titanic;

     > <snipped unreadable junk>

    <unsnip to expose the arguments DVH feared most and conceded:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >> Having a LOT of regulation, all run by the graduates of
    >> Goldman Sachs and proud Friedmanites, under a government
    >> that was profoundly de-regulatory means you got an economy
    >> that tore up the rule book as certainly as Bush tore up
    >> your constitutional rights and freedoms, while pretending
    >> to protect them!!!!   B^D

    >> You have Political frauds appointing Goldman Sachs Free-market
    >> neo-liberals to head the Fed!!!   B^D

    >> It’s like putting the Beagle Boys in charge of the safe!  B^D

    >> The goal of Big Capital is to make sure that after each crisis,
    >> the response is to put in just enough window dressing to prevent
    >> the LAST fuck-up from recurring, but not to curtail the next
    >> clever financial instrument that can enable shearing the sheep..

    >> Milkin and Junk bonds –>  some concessions to tighten THAT
    >> specific problem..

    >> toxic sub-prime mortgage derivatives—> you don’t need to
    >> hang the last Investment banker in the entrails of the last
    >> hedge fund..   they have already imploded.

    >> But, here’s the difference, this has been SO SEVERE across
    >> the globe that you are going to see more of what has already
    >> happened in response..  global co-operation, strengthening
    >> and reforming global financial institutions, creating new
    >> ones,  and because the USSA hasn’t even started to feel the
    >> pain, they, under new management, will be taking a renewed
    >> role in multilateral approaches and global solutions!   B^)

    >> Read Prof Fariborz Moshirian in the Fin Review 15/10/2008
    >> for an excellent article on why this crisis is an OPPORTUNITY!  B^D
    >> "Nothing Like a Crisis to Make it All Better."

    If I have time I will scan a copy, as you clearly can’t afford
    to subscribe.  ;-)

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >>> The writer’s a blithering idiot.

    >> You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    >> and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    >> So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    >> to the USSA are doing,  you seem to be the blithering idiot

    >> "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    >> Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    >> reached a turning point.

    >> The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    >> to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    >> as well as guarantees."

    >> ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
    >>   financial markets is now needed."

    >>> We’ve had less than a week when the
    >>> conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments
    >>> have coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

    It seems DVH is sensitive about being laughed at.. but really,
    when he ignores, (or more likely is ignorant of) the LIBOR
    rate easing already, to complain that the socialist intervention
    has not solved the crisis building for YEARS is hilarious!

    >> Davidson is speaking of what CAN ‘get us out of this mess"
    >> and you are whining that it hasn’t happened already IN A WEEK!?

    >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAHAHAA

    >> That’s it.. you are in the Braindead Bit Bucket with PomPom And BlowJob!

    I should have stuck with my dismissal of such a lightweight,
    his subsequent contribution is to stand about with all the other
    idiots whose specious drivel I have eviscerated and toolfondle.

    "We showed him!"

         "Sure did"

    "he’s a poo poo head"

          "yeah, but we snipped him good!"

    B^D

      ———

             "Ohhhhh Say can you see
                   By the dawns early light
              The markets in panic
                  and Republicans take flight! "

      ———

        "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
       Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
       Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

        http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

      ———

  37. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    DVH wrote:
    > "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:48f8afd9$0$31804$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >> parri…@yahoo.com wrote:
    >>> On 17 Okt, 12:47, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>>> DVH wrote:
    >>>>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>>>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008
    >>>>>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!
    >>>>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.
    >>>>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess
    >> …
    >> <snip all the points conceded by DVH>

    >>>>> The writer’s a blithering idiot.
    >>>> You seem to be unpublished, with no peer reviewed papers,
    >>>> and you can’t be well heeled or you wouldn’t be in USENET,

    You could have surprised me with your qualifications!   B^)

    MBA?

    BEc?

    Certificate II in sophistry?

    Bun boy at Hamburger U?

    >>>> So, given that he’s describing what governments from the UK
    >>>> to the USSA are doing,  you seem to be the blithering idiot

    >>>> "The winner of this year’s Nobel prize for economics,
    >>>> Paul Krugman, says the world financial crisis may have
    >>>> reached a turning point.

    >>>> The US economist says he is encouraged by the European plan
    >>>> to tackle the crisis through providing more capital for banks,
    >>>> as well as guarantees."

    >>>> ""Professor Krugman says that tighter regulation of the
    >>>>    financial markets is now needed."

    Astonishingly, after 10 years of assisting Phil Gram
    and the Republican Regulation-Rapists Lame-Duck Bush
    agreed entirely in his address to the US Chamber of Comrades,
    and they applauded him loudly.

    Socialism, Keynes, regulation, accountability, transparency,
    prudence, honesty and integrity are coming back..
    just as soon as Obama is sworn in and the White House is fumigated!  ;-)

    >>>>> We’ve had less than a week when the
    >>>>> conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    >>>>> coordinated their actions while nationalising banks.

    >> And the LIBOR rate has since dropped two days running!!!!

    DVH thinks that’s what Vogon women go into when giving birth!

    >> The Market is starting to come out of it’s Credit Coma
    >> as a result of co-ordinated global socialist action by Europe,
    >> the USSA,G7 and G20 nations.

    >> [The SubPrime catastrophe still hasn’t even reached
    >> the mature larval stage.  ;-]

    >> But your notion that a Socialist intervention a week ago
    >> should instantly fix a decade of Capitalist Contagion
    >> is really funny, …and very naive, (in a non-charming way B^)

    > A notion you’ve conjured out of thin air.

    "We’ve had less than a week when the
    conditions above have truly been fulfilled – i.e. when governments have
    coordinated their actions while nationalising banks."

    And in just that brief period of time the effect has been easing of the
    LIBOR rate, one of those ‘buzzwords’ you need someone to explain to you!

    B^D

    Once trust is restored, the banks begin to lend to each other again.

    The Nationalizations and guarantees have restored some confidence in the
    credit market, but the subprime stinker is still festering.

    > <snipped>

    your forte ever since you rested your case..

    very wise, it was too weak to go on.

      ———

             "Ohhhhh Say can you see
                   By the dawns early light
              The markets in panic
                  and Republicans take flight! "

      ———

        "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
       Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
       Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

        http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

      ———

  38. admin says:

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:14:23 +1100, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >DVH wrote:
    >> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:48f86d28$0$18424$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>> DVH wrote:
    >>>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >>>>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    >>>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    >>>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess
    >>>> No, your premise is wrong.
    >>> No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    >>> …to use the technical market term

    >> No, there is not near-universal acceptance that deregulated financial
    >> markets have got the world into this mess.

    >Note the date, people were aware of the Republican
    >Deregulation push long before this crisis broke:

    >"McCain guru linked to subprime crisis"
    >      28/3/08
    >      http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9246.html

    >"The general co-chairman of John McCain’s presidential
    >campaign, former Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas), led the
    >charge in 1999 to repeal a Depression-era banking
    >regulation law that Democrat Barack Obama claimed
    >on Thursday contributed significantly to today’s
    >economic turmoil.

    >“A regulatory structure set up for banks in the
    >1930s needed to change because the nature of business
    >had changed,” the Illinois senator running for president
    >said in a New York economic speech. “But by the time
    >[it] was repealed in 1999, the $300 million lobbying
    >effort that drove deregulation was more about
    >facilitating mergers than creating an efficient
    >regulatory framework.”

    >     300 million lobbying effort..

    >Gramm’s role in the swift and dramatic recent
    >restructuring of the nation’s investment houses
    >and practices didn’t stop there.

    >A year after the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed
    >the old regulations, Swiss Bank UBS gobbled up
    >brokerage house Paine Weber. Two years later,
    >Gramm settled in as a vice chairman of UBS’s new
    >investment banking arm.

    >Later, he became a major player in its government
    >affairs operation. According to federal lobbying
    >disclosure records, Gramm lobbied Congress, the
    >Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department about
    >banking and mortgage issues in 2005 and 2006.

    >During those years, the mortgage industry pressed
    >Congress to roll back strong state rules that sought
    >to stem the rise of predatory tactics used by lenders
    >and brokers to place homeowners in high-cost mortgages.

    >For his work, Gramm and two other lobbyists collected
    >$750,000 in fees from UBS’s American subsidiary.
    >In the past year, UBS has written down more than
    >$18 billion in exposure to subprime loans and other
    >risky securities and is considering cutting as many
    >as 8,000 jobs.

    >Gramm did not respond to an e-mail and was unavailable
    >for comment, according to a UBS spokesman.
    >The bank has no official position on the subprime crisis,
    >the spokesman said, but is a member of the Financial
    >Services Roundtable and other industry groups that are
    >actively lobbying Congress on the issue.

    >Now, some housing experts and economists see Gramm’s
    >thinking in the recent housing proposal from McCain,
    >the Republican Party’s presumed presidential nominee.
    >Gramm is often a surrogate for the Arizona senator,
    >particularly in meetings focused on the economy.
    >And McCain has hinted he’d consider the former Texas
    >senator for Treasury secretary in a McCain administration.

    >McCain delivered an economic speech Tuesday that had
    >Gramm’s input, but it was written by domestic policy
    >adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

    >“Sen. Gramm was one of dozens of folks whom Sen.
    >McCain has consulted on the housing issue, including
    >Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman from eBay," said McCain
    >campaign spokesman Brian Rogers. "They’ve been friends
    >for years, and he values Sen. Gramm’s advice."

    >In the speech, McCain rejected the type of aggressive
    >government intervention in the economic meltdown that
    >has been embraced by his Democratic opponents — and
    >even some Bush advisers.

    >“I have always been committed to the principle that it
    >is not the duty of government to bail out and reward
    >those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big
    >banks or small borrowers,” McCain said. “Government
    >assistance to the banking system should be based
    >solely on preventing systemic risk that would endanger
    >the entire financial system and the economy.”

    >     Apparently McCains ‘committment to the principle"
    >     is about as strong as the USSA regulatory environment
    >     after his mates ripped it up!!!

    >"McCain’s campaign later clarified that he would support
    >programs for “deserving” homeowners and reforms that
    >would improve transparency and accountability in capital
    >markets.

    >Andrew Jakabovics, a housing expert at the liberal
    >Center for American Progress, said McCain’s interpretation
    >of the crisis puts little blame on investment banks for
    >their role in packaging the subprime loans into dangerously
    >complex and ultimately hard-to-value financial instruments."

    >     Like Bush, and all the others trying to coverup they
    >     blame ‘cheap money’   The Very think Capitalism desires most!!!

    >     Apparently they think if I give you a knife and you cut
    >     your throat, after cutting the throats of a dozen others,
    >     rather than using it to slice bread.. it’s MY fault for
    >     ‘arming an idiot’!!    B^D

    >      That is their diversionary argument to hide the facts
    >      about dodgy sub-prime derivatives, that hid risk,
    >      they talk about "the Fed printing Money" "cheap funds"
    >      as if the ONLY thing the Market could do with them is
    >      lend them to people who couldn’t repay!!!   B^D

    >      It is hilarious, it makes Capitalism sound even more
    >      failed than the truth!!! And yet that was the line Bush
    >      trotted out in his address to the US Chamber of Comrades, er
    >      i mean ‘Commerce’!  B^)

    >      In the old days, if you lent money imprudently, you lost it!

    >      But once you could pass the RISK on to someone else through
    >      the ‘packaging of subprime loans into dangerously
    >      complex and ultimately hard-to-value financial instruments’
    >      then you were on the road to ruin..  With The Republicans
    >      driving and pulling out all the airbags and safety features
    >      as they went!

    >“I’d characterize this as the deux ex machina theory of
    >financial products,” Jakabovics said. “He views this as a
    >market problem that manifests at the local level as housing,
    >meaning he’s more likely to argue in favor of these guys
    >when they argue for deregulation.”

    >Wall Street firms are increasingly under scrutiny for
    >contributing to the economic downturn by packaging and
    >selling risky mortgage securities. When the home loans
    >tied to the mortgages defaulted, investors and the banks
    >lost billions, contributing to a widespread credit crunch.

    >“I think [McCain’s] attitude is the market can basically
    >handle this and government doesn’t need to be heavily
    >involved,” said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard
    >and Poor’s.

    >McCain and Gramm have a long political history. The two
    >became close when they worked together as senators to
    >defeat Hillary Rodham Clinton’s 1993 health care plan,
    >holding meetings at hospitals and clinics across the country.

    >In 1996, McCain was national chairman of Gramm’s unsuccessful
    >presidential bid.

    >In 2000, the duo had a rare parting when Gramm backed his
    >home-state governor, George W. Bush, for president instead
    >of McCain. But they’ve reunited in this presidential race.

    >Gramm stood by his former Senate colleague in his worst
    >days last summer when his campaign went broke and his
    >candidacy was all but written off by political observers.

    >Gramm, who had joined the campaign in March as a domestic
    >policy adviser, was among those who helped cut staff and
    >shrink the budgets. He traveled with McCain in Iowa,
    >New Hampshire and South Carolina and stumped for him in
    >Georgia. "

    >  ———
    >The wisdom of Phil Gramm, Social Darwinist:

    >"I have as many guns as I need, but I don’t have as many guns as I want."

    >"Most people don’t have the luxury of living to be 80 years old, so it’s
    >hard for me to feel sorry for them."

    >"I recently told Ed Whitacre [former CEO of AT&T, who retired with a
    >$158 million pay package] he was probably the most exploited worker in
    >American history"

    >  ———

    >"Gramm was one of five co-sponsors of the Commodity Futures
    >Modernization Act of 2000[8]. One provision of the bill was
    >referred to as the "Enron loophole" because the House Agriculture
    >Committee drafted it and it was later applied to Enron. Some critics
    >blame the provision for permitting the Enron scandal to occur."

    >  ———

    >         "Ohhhhh Say can you see
    >               By the dawns early light
    >          The markets in panic
    >              and Republicans take flight! "

    >  ———

    >    "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
    >   Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
    >   Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

    >    http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

    >  ———

    x


    web site at http://www.abelard.org – news comment service, logic, economics
     energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
    ——————————————————————————–
      all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
      the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
      good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words

    read more »

  39. admin says:

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:14:23 +1100, fasgnadh <fasgn…@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >DVH wrote:
    >> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:48f86d28$0$18424$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>> DVH wrote:
    >>>> "fasgnadh" <fasgn…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:48f6e059$0$18427$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au…
    >>>>> "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >>>>>     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >>>>>         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    >>>>> "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    >>>>> WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    >>>>> there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    >>>>> financial markets have got the world into this mess
    >>>> No, your premise is wrong.
    >>> No, deregulated Capitalism is wrong, seriously fucked up,
    >>> …to use the technical market term

    >> No, there is not near-universal acceptance that deregulated financial
    >> markets have got the world into this mess.

    >Note the date, people were aware of the Republican
    >Deregulation push long before this crisis broke:

    >"McCain guru linked to subprime crisis"
    >      28/3/08
    >      http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9246.html

    >"The general co-chairman of John McCain’s presidential
    >campaign, former Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas), led the
    >charge in 1999 to repeal a Depression-era banking
    >regulation law that Democrat Barack Obama claimed
    >on Thursday contributed significantly to today’s
    >economic turmoil.

    >“A regulatory structure set up for banks in the
    >1930s needed to change because the nature of business
    >had changed,” the Illinois senator running for president
    >said in a New York economic speech. “But by the time
    >[it] was repealed in 1999, the $300 million lobbying
    >effort that drove deregulation was more about
    >facilitating mergers than creating an efficient
    >regulatory framework.”

    >     300 million lobbying effort..

    >Gramm’s role in the swift and dramatic recent
    >restructuring of the nation’s investment houses
    >and practices didn’t stop there.

    >A year after the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed
    >the old regulations,

    you’re lying again…..
    glb was signed into law by clinton……and set up/increased the
        pressures on the cra legislation which has caused this gum-up…..

    clinton threatened veto if he did not get that pressure!!

    >"McCain’s campaign later clarified that he would support
    >programs for “deserving” homeowners and reforms that
    >would improve transparency and accountability in capital
    >markets.

    indeed…called for increased transparency!!!

    it was lack of transparency that allowed the fannie mae debacle

    >"Gramm was one of five co-sponsors of the Commodity Futures
    >Modernization Act of 2000[8]. One provision of the bill was
    >referred to as the "Enron loophole" because the House Agriculture
    >Committee drafted it and it was later applied to Enron. Some critics
    >blame the provision for permitting the Enron scandal to occur."

    i’m so glad you ‘forgot’ to mention gore’s involvement with enron…
    an amazing number of you socialists ‘forget’ that…

    you socialist fools never can tell the difference between good
        regulation/law…and bad regulation/law…..

    you don’t even understand the difference between good
        regulation/law…….and no regulation/law….

    you’re an idiot….as ever


    web site at http://www.abelard.org – news comment service, logic, economics
     energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
    ——————————————————————————–
      all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
      the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
      good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                        only when it’s funny — roger rabbit
    ——————————————————————————–

  40. admin says:

    pewwee piddled:

    > Tell me

    GAGF.  Clear?

  41. admin says:

    peewee piddled:

    > I just noticed

    Yes, but far too late.  Go and clean yourself up!

  42. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    fasgnadh wrote:

    > "In a crisis, old wisdoms come to the rescue"
    >     –  Kenneth Davidson  16/10/2008

    >         This bloke is the real McCoy!

    > "The real time bomb in our financial system is still ticking.

    > WHATEVER the outcome of the global economic crisis,
    > there is near-universal acceptance that deregulated
    > financial markets have got the world into this mess
    > and only governments, acting co-operatively to
    > "pump-prime" the economy and — in some cases
    > — effectively nationalise the banks can get us out
    > of the mess.

    > Already there is progress, of sorts. Last week we
    > were talking about a slump on the scale of the Great
    > Depression of the 1930s, when unemployment leapt to
    > 20 to 30% of the workforce in industrialised countries.

    > This week we are talking about a recession involving
    > the prospect of negative growth in most industrialised
    > countries for one or two quarters early next year and
    > weak growth, insufficient to maintain full employment,
    > for a couple of years.

    > What has caused this transformation? Policymakers
    > around the world and the overwhelming majority of
    > economic pundits have accepted the practical message
    > of Keynesian economics.

    > They have abandoned what is known as economic rationalism
    > in Australia and as neo-liberalism in the rest of the
    > world and accepted the need for hitherto unprecedented
    > monetary injections into nations’ income-expenditure
    > streams to offset the slump in private spending.

    Globally, it’s all about fiscal stimulus,  Friedman is out,
    only George Bush, and two other idiots, PomPom and BJ Foster
    believe the market will self-correct, and Keynes is back
    with a vengeance!

    "5. We have taken strong and significant actions to date
    to stimulate our economies, provide liquidity, strengthen
    the capital of financial institutions, protect savings and
    deposits, address regulatory deficiencies, unfreeze credit
    markets, and are working to ensure that international
    financial institutions (IFIs) can provide critical
    support for the global economy.

    6. But more needs to be done to stabilize financial markets
    and support economic growth. Economic momentum is slowing
    substantially in major economies and the global outlook has
    weakened. Many emerging market economies, which helped
    sustain the world economy this decade, are still experiencing
    good growth but increasingly are being adversely impacted
    by the worldwide slowdown.

    7. Against this background of deteriorating economic
    conditions worldwide, we agreed that a broader policy
    response is needed, based on closer macroeconomic
    cooperation, to restore growth, avoid negative spillovers
    and support emerging market economies and developing
    countries. As immediate steps to achieve these objectives,
    as well as to address longer-term challenges, we will:

       Continue our vigorous efforts and take whatever further
       actions are necessary to stabilize the financial system.

       Recognize the importance of monetary policy support,
       as deemed appropriate to domestic conditions.

       Use fiscal measures to stimulate domestic demand to rapid
       effect, as appropriate, while maintaining a policy framework
       conducive to fiscal sustainability.

       Help emerging and developing economies gain access to finance
       in current difficult financial conditions, including through
       liquidity facilities and program support. We stress the International
       Monetary Fund’s (IMF) important role in crisis response, welcome
       its new short-term liquidity facility, and urge the ongoing review
       of its instruments and facilities to ensure flexibility.

       Encourage the World Bank and other multilateral development
       banks (MDBs) to use their full capacity in support of their
       development agenda, and we welcome the recent introduction of
       new facilities by the World Bank in the areas of infrastructure
       and trade finance.

       Ensure that the IMF, World Bank and other MDBs have sufficient
       resources to continue playing their role in overcoming the crisis."

    Everyone (except a few Freidmanite fanatics still inspecting their
    colons; http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html )
    now accepts that our highly integrated global economy, where massive
    Market failures in the USSA  affect everyone else, requires a greater
    degree of co-ordinated intervention, as outlined above.

    Chief among the measures to prevent the severity of the US depression
    dragging the world into mass unemployment and negative growth is the
    Keynesian stimulus "strong and significant actions to date to stimulate
    our economies"   with more to come.

    Fundamentally the world relies on those with massive sovereign reserves,
    China and the ME to spend us into restored demand and growth.

    Then to prevent a crisis of this magnitude happening again,
    more effective, GLOBAL regulation is planned.

    As I have been explaining for some months now.  B^)

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > It took 50 years for the lessons of the Great Depression,
    > and the consequent rise of fascism and World War II,
    > to be forgotten. It is not surprising that the generation
    > who survived that experience were committed to a "belts
    > and braces" system of economic management to ensure that
    > that global trauma would never happen again — or that
    > the generation who replaced them in the 1980s could not
    > understand that commitment.

    > Ironically, the high prestige of the current generation
    > of economic managers was inherited from the success of
    > the Keynesians. Yet they are, in the main, arrogant
    > (at least until recently). They are highly trained technicians,
    > dismissive of economic history and would probably be
    > puzzled by the notion that economics is moral science
    > rather than a "hard" science.

    > Their "science" does not allow for the possibility that
    > mankind is a mixture of selfishness and altruism and can
    > shape as well as be shaped by the environment through time.

    > Both schools of economics have an underlying social philosophy.
    > It is not surprising that those who are rich (or want to
    > serve the rich) and those with a libertarian bent tend to
    > favour neo-liberal economics and those who value security
    > and equality are biased in favour of Keynesian economics.

    > It is not immediately apparent that the Rudd Government
    > will be comfortable with the philosophical and political
    > underpinnings of Keynesian economics, even though John
    > Maynard Keynes supported Britain’s Liberal Party and
    > could credibly claim to be an Edmund Burke conservative
    > in terms of political philosophy.

    > Nevertheless, writing in 1936 in The General Theory
    > of Employment, Interest and Money, his answer to the
    > Depression, Keynes saw a long-term decline in the
    > return on investment which meant the long-term
    > "euthanasia of the rentier" (defined as the
    > "functionless investor").

    > Elsewhere he made it clear that he saw financial
    > investment in the sharemarket (which he was good at)
    > as a "low-grade" activity that made liquid investment
    > in otherwise illiquid assets such as a mine (through
    > buying and selling bits of paper called shares).

    > He met head-on the charge that his theory unduly
    > limited individual freedom: "Whilst, therefore,
    > the enlargement of the functions of government,
    > involved in the task of adjusting to one another
    > the propensity to consume and the inducement to
    > invest, would seem to the 19th century publicist
    > or to a contemporary American financier to be a
    > terrific encroachment on individualism, I defend it,
    > on the contrary, both as the only practicable means
    > of avoiding the destruction of existing economic
    > forms in their entirety and as the condition of
    > the successful functioning of individual initiative."

    > Keynes asked: "Is the fulfilment of these ideas a
    > visionary hope? Are the interests they will thwart
    > stronger and more obvious than those which they will
    > serve?"

    > He also likened financial speculation to the card
    > game where the loser ends up holding "the old maid".

    > Forget the subprime loans. They amount to gambling
    > with matchsticks compared to the "old maids" lurking
    > somewhere in the $90 trillion (about 80 times
    > Australian GDP) global credit default swaps market.

    > The Reserve Bank "knows of" about $400 billion of these
    > instruments in Australia. By comparison, the assets of
    > the Australian banks amount to $142 billion. Nobody,
    > including the Australian banks, knows who is holding
    > the "old maids".

    > It is no wonder bank nationalisation is back on the
    > political agenda worldwide. In Australia, at the very
    > least, we will see the banks re-regulated to the degree
    > that applied when the Menzies government made the
    > commercial banks the agents of the Treasury and the
    > Reserve Bank as the alternative to the failed bank
    > nationalisation in 1949.

    >  ———

    >         "Ohhhhh Say can you see
    >               By the dawns early light
    >          The markets in panic
    >              and Republicans take flight! "

    >  ———

    >    "The Fundamentals of our Economy remain Strong"  - John McSame,
    >   Republican Candidate for the Presidency of the Derivative Ravaged,
    >   Crisis torn, Economic Basket Case, The USSA!

    >    http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html

    >  ———

  43. admin says:

    peewee piddled:

    > As I have been explaining for some months now.  B^)

    The world is *not* flat, Peewee, regardless of your pitiful denials.